SS Cap Eagle query

[bratwurstdimsum]

My first gift from a British Airborne vet. He says he's from the 125th and "liberated" this off a SS Colonel.

The RZM mark is clear but can anyone tell me about the M1/83 (I think its a '3'?)

[Mr.Jerry D]

That's not an ss eagle in the true sense, (not that it couldn't have been worn by one, I have seen several SS caps with that style eagle on) but tit is the silver political/SA eagle worn by SA, and HJ leaders among others.

[bratwurstdimsum]

That's not an ss eagle in the true sense, (not that it couldn't have been worn by one, I have seen several SS caps with that style eagle on) but tit is the silver political/SA eagle worn by SA, and HJ leaders among others.

Interesting, I thought the 'RZM' MM was the MM of the Waffen SS?

Here is the obverse:

[Doug Kenwright]

you will find the rzm mark on items produced for political organisations controlled by the nazi party(not army,navy or airforce for eg,,)the eagle in question is a political style example. below is an ss example. compare the two side by side and you will see the difference...

[Doug Kenwright]

you will find the rzm mark on items produced for political organisations controlled by the nazi party(not army,navy or airforce for eg,,)the eagle in question is a political style example. below is an ss example. compare the two side by side and you will see the difference...

pic...

[bratwurstdimsum]

mmm...thanks mate , are you saying then that the RZM did not produce for the military arm of the SS? I have seen the mark on a few SS belt buckles.

[Mr.Jerry D]

The RZM didn't "produce" anything. They were a form of "quality control" they "accepted" things produced by various makers for the nazi party organizations SS, SA, NSKK,NSFK, HJ, and NSDAP. That why you see thier mark on things. (but again Not the Army. Luftwaffe, Navy or Police) They also collected a 'tax' from the sale of these items to party members that helped fund the party, you had to be authorized to make these items and autorized to sell them, the RZM code spelled out what you were allowed to make and who you were (RZM 7/14 = dagger mfgr. Carl Eichhorn, etc)

[Doug Kenwright]

The RZM didn't "produce" anything. They were a form of "quality control" they "accepted" things produced by various makers for the nazi party organizations SS, SA, NSKK,NSFK, HJ, and NSDAP. That why you see thier mark on things. (but again Not the Army. Luftwaffe, Navy or Police) They also collected a 'tax' from the sale of these items to party members that helped fund the party, you had to be authorized to make these items and autorized to sell them, the RZM code spelled out what you were allowed to make and who you were (RZM 7/14 = dagger mfgr. Carl Eichhorn, etc)

yes,as well,even though there was a waffen(armed) ss they were still ss and therefore still a politically controlled organisation.

[bratwurstdimsum]

Thanks very much all!

So does anyone know what manufacturer this cap eagle came from?

[sjl]

Thanks very much all! So does anyone know what manufacturer this cap eagle came from?

M1/83 belonged to maker Willy Annetsberger of Munich.

The RZM regulated the uniformity of NSDAP organzational insignia, buckles, tinnies, daggers, musical instruments, uniform fittings & buttons, and Party Long Service Awards. It issued regulations for their design specifications, licensed manufacturers and regulated distribution outlets. It also set standard prices.

It started in this role in late 1934, with all Party insignia being required to carry the RZM logo starting on Jan 16, 1935. The "M" license markings were finalized in March 1935, with new licenses being issued through until about 1943-44. You could not manufacture or sell RZM items without a license.

The SS was originally under the Party's RZM (under Party Treasurer FX Schwarz), but by 1936 it had set up a parallel RZM structure with its own licensing numbers. This was part of the SS's vast economic empire. The SS did not use the "M" licensing prefix in their numbers, instead just using a manufacturer number and usually date of manufacture (ie: 422/38). Confusingly, they continued to use the RZM logo too, usually accompanied by the SS runes in a circle. It is unclear what relationship the SS had (f any) with the Party's RZM, since Himmler and Schwarz were friends and political allies.

There are complete lists of RZM manufacturer codes (I have them in my book), but no list of SS "RZM" codes.

[bratwurstdimsum]

You're the best Stephen, just what I'm looking for

[sjl]

You're the best Stephen, just what I'm looking for

My pleasure!