Interesting . . .

[Stossgruppe3]

Whilst looking for an example for the post " SS Sleeve Eagle Progression "
I came across these few images of what appears to be a very nice (very rare) original early SS sleeve eagle.
I for one have never seen anything like it . . .
It's the first one I have ever seen in all my days of collecting.
It would be interesting to hear what other have to say
Regards David

[Stossgruppe3]

And the reverse . . .

[MM1985]

A nice eagle - this is one of the known "Hammerhead" Patterns.

[MM1985]

1

[RobertE]

Very unusual, but seems correctly made in all details. Since the earlier days, SS common-use insignia (sleeve eagles) were rendered on black, even if such insignia were to be applied to white jackets or tropical types.

I have never owned any such pieces, and it was a treat to view. Thanks for posting it.

s/f Robert

[MM1985]

Imo the eagle lost the black Color and the wool turned into light Brown. This eagle was never made with White backing.

[Robert H]

maybe for the earth brown tunic or drill tunic?

[Stossgruppe3]

Imo the eagle lost the black Color and the wool turned into light Brown. This eagle was never made with White backing.

I don't understand what you mean here . . .
IMO . . . we really don't know that the wool backing is light brown ?
But if this is the case - How would you explain that ?
As it seems to have the same colour on the back.
This could only have happened if bleached surely ?
You also mentioned " This eagle was never made with White backing " it doesn't
Regards David

[MM1985]

The black wool of the eagle lost the black Color. This could have happend because of chemicals or other things (sun light etc.)

If you study black wool garments you will often notice the discoloration of black wool into something else.

I do not think that this eagle was ever made with White and/or light brown backing. There is no sense to make a White eagle with White (or light Brown) backing.

[RobertE]

I do not think that this eagle was ever made with White and/or light brown backing. There is no sense to make a White eagle with White (or light Brown) backing.

Until this eagle surfaced, I had never seen one either. Very interesting variation to say the least.

With so many of the SS-VT era earth brown tunics using armbands, and plenty of pre-war archival photos showing sleeve insignia with black background material, this is a headscratcher.

All major services did not use contasting eagle backgrounds; the Luftwaffe and the winter service Kriegsmarine uniforms had insignia backings that matched the uniform upon which they were worn. However, the army, which has the closest parallels to the Waffen SS / SS-VT and contributed more transferred personnel than any other service during the hammerhead production period, did use the contrasting underlayment until the middle of the war.

As stated in numerous references and evidenced in collections, the significance of the black secondary collar on insignia had importance undertones in the SS. I am curious what might have been the reason for abandoning that preference in the case of this eagle, which to me appears to be original and originally worked on a tan background.

s/f Robert

[Regen]

I consider that it is feature of the used wool(low-quality dye of wool).
she just faded under the influence of the environment and time.

[RobertE]

IMO, the tab on the left was never a black example. I have black wool examples worn to threadbare status, and have never seen any shade change other than dark grey.

s/f Robert

s/f Robert

[Regen]

IMO, the tab on the left was never a black example.

this tab is removed from a SS'M43 jacket, found in the earth in Karelia.

[Regen]

these tabs have been also found in the earth.
both tab's are produced by "Frank & Schmidt". right tab was black just as tab with left.

[Stossgruppe3]

this tab is removed from a SS'M43 jacket, found in the earth in Karelia.

IMO, the tab on the left was never a black example. I have black wool examples worn to threadbare status, and have never seen any shade change other than dark grey.

s/f Robert

Firstly I fully understand your reasoning Regan . . .
As I have seen this before.
But with regards to the eagle I have to say I am in agreement with Robert
Coz I have also seen wool sleeve eagles taken from the ground and all that was missing with the thread with no discoloration of the base material
Regards David