Skull and some others on a cap

[Wiffles]

Over the past weekend I was gifted this cap by an older relative. This person has been collecting primarily firearms for the last 60+ years and came across this cap decades ago (having now just rediscovered it after years). I generally stay away from pins and medals though this situation was a bit different. I am hoping others with more knowledge and experience can weigh in with their input and opinions. The cap itself I believe to be an after the fact addition (the liner states it was made in Philadelphia), where at some point over time the pins were added. By who or when I am not sure. It appears some of the pins have been on the cap for a long time though, as the fabric is far less faded behind the eagle. From what I can see, the n.s.d.a.p painted pin has rzm markings on the reverse though I haven't actually taken it (or any of them) off for fear of breaking a prong(s). I wanted to post here first before I do such a thing and find out the best way to proceed without breaking anything. As always any guidance is appreciated.

[Christian J]

Sorry. Skull is bad.

[SScollector]

Skull is very bad!

Chris

[Tony Bologna]

All insignia could be bad on it.

[ETN]

Police eagle looks original

[Stossgruppe3]

Police eagle looks original

Apologises for this I know its not the topic . . .
But I've never liked those police eagles
I remember when they first hit the market many years ago
My reason being you don't see the large type in this style do you ?
Therefore why change something so small from one nice looking item to the puny one shown beats me
IMO I feel this is one of those badges that has been accepted as real in the collecting world . . . Is there any photographic evidence of it in wear ?
Regards David

[Wiffles]

Yikes this is what I was afraid of and why I came here. I actually took the pins off once i read the responses and will post pics of the backs once I am home. The skull was marked rzm m1/51 I believe. Thanks again!

[Christian J]

Yikes this is what I was afraid of and why I came here. I actually took the pins off once i read the responses and will post pics of the backs once I am home. The skull was marked rzm m1/51 I believe. Thanks again!

Probably M1/52, but it's nowhere near that design.

[SScollector]

This skull is a well known, (and posted here many times), WWME repro-website fake from the early 2000's. I bought one from there years ago.
It should be marked "M1/52" and although these were cast, they were not cast from originals.
Just a low budget, but decent imo, attempt at recreating the Deschler skull all together.

Chris

[Wiffles]

Thanks a lot for the info, it was actually m1/52. I don't think I will even bother posting the back!
What are thoughts on the actual eagle? To me the pebbling seems pretty random and in general it is pretty detailed and reminds me of other similar pins (in fit, finish, and overall appearance) that I have seen. Though considering the other pins it was placed with I should view it as suspect if not for sure repro/fake.

[ETN]

Apologises for this I know its not the topic . . .
But I've never liked those police eagles
I remember when they first hit the market many years ago
My reason being you don't see the large type in this style do you ?
Therefore why change something so small from one nice looking item to the puny one shown beats me
IMO I feel this is one of those badges that has been accepted as real in the collecting world . . . Is there any photographic evidence of it in wear ?
Regards David

The eagle on the hat is an early 1st type police cap eagle, please see the last post of this thread for a photo of one in wear:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...p+eagle&page=3

The large style eagle is the 2nd type, introduced in about 1935 (if I remember correctly, maybe it's 1936) replacing the 1st type.

The 1st type eagles are quite common and have been readily available on the market since the war's end. I have no problem with the example on the hat. While there are fakes of these, they are not at the level of SS cap insignia.

[ETN]

Thanks a lot for the info, it was actually m1/52. I don't think I will even bother posting the back!
What are thoughts on the actual eagle? To me the pebbling seems pretty random and in general it is pretty detailed and reminds me of other similar pins (in fit, finish, and overall appearance) that I have seen. Though considering the other pins it was placed with I should view it as suspect if not for sure repro/fake.

It's an original. Tell you what though, if you think it's a fake go ahead and send it me. I can always use another for my own police collection

[Funia]

This first pattern police eagle it's a copy.
Improper head shape and size.
Improper wings shape.
Also compare the wings:
The upper edge of the left one is higher if you compare to the upper edge right one.
On orginal one badge they are on the same level.
Also alloy is not correct for this type og badges.
Summary for me its a copy.

Peter

[ETN]

Wiffles, my offer still stands.