Research Soviet Film Studio Markings with regards to Pink Smocks

[kammo man]

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[90th Light]

Chris
The simple answer is

I have seen a ..............name type of garment
Its was like this ........

I have seen a ............name type of garment ....
It was different from type 1 because of this

I have seen a ........name type of garment
It was smiler to Pink because of this ......


Yes you wont answer my academic question.

But you deflect your answer.

Say on course please.

I do not see how it is an academic question Owen,

comparisons between different makers is odious and that is a fact. Sure they provide an overview guideline and areas to study/ investigate/ research. However, they are only that, a guideline. It is when we compare products from the same maker that the "real-deal-footprints" can be documented. Even then there are differences between early verses late war, plus other variations from the same maker

You seem to be looking for a textbook, beyond doubt, one-looker SS smock that compares directly and maps one on one with a Pink/ Brick/ Birch smock.

Until you find that (which we know you will not) then you are saying they must be fake. You know textbook and they are not textbook. We all agree they are not textbook but very nothing so far has proved they are not wartime, made before May 1945. In fact the investigations to date have proved quite the opposite.

It is like saying, that a "BSW" pilot badge can not be real because it does not match exactly a badge made by "Juncker", "Deumer" and any other of a half dozen known makers. Thus different in several ways.

How would that deem the "BSW" badge a fake which by the way were not made in Germany ???

Chris

[Jeff V]

Chris, in your analogy, would the BSW pilot badge be manufactured without hardware?

[phild]

Phild
I specifically pictured a Pink against a HB pullover just for you.
Thoughts ?

My thought is that the birch smocks are much closer to the German made duck smock in every respect except maybe some of the color shades (but not all). We accept hbt smocks because enough of them ended up issued to show up in a couple of photos where they can be recognized and also worn or stored west Of the Soviet zone to be brought back back a few vets.


The laces have been brought up dozens of times. No idea why these do not one (but would not have been a German stock type imported to Minsk!) not can I figure why a fake would not have one or certainly a made up movie prop.
My best guess is and has always been that they were not installed but maybe provided separate on issue. My understanding is this was common (for example) with helmets and chinstraps.

[kammo man]

I do not see how it is an academic question Owen,

comparisons between different makers is odious and that is a fact. Sure they provide an overview guideline and areas to study/ investigate/ research. However, they are only that, a guideline. It is when we compare products from the same maker that the "real-deal-footprints" can be documented. Even then there are differences between early verses late war, plus other variations from the same maker

You seem to be looking for a textbook, beyond doubt, one-looker SS smock that compares directly and maps one on one with a Pink/ Brick/ Birch smock.

Until you find that (which we know you will not) then you are saying they must be fake. You know textbook and they are not textbook. We all agree they are not textbook but very nothing so far has proved they are not wartime, made before May 1945. In fact the investigations to date have proved quite the opposite.

It is like saying, that a "BSW" pilot badge can not be real because it does not match exactly a badge made by "Juncker", "Deumer" and any other of a half dozen known makers. Thus different in several ways.

How would that deem the "BSW" badge a fake which by the way were not made in Germany ???

Chris

Just answer the question.
Not this waffle.

[90th Light]

Chris, in your analogy, would the BSW pilot badge be manufactured without hardware?

Do you mean because there are no laces Jeff ?

while there is a range of answers and possibilities. Some known and some still waiting to be discovered or worked out.

It is perhaps a a bit like the "AS" Minesweeper badge mystery. A late model that was made or in the process of being being made, but never fell into Allied veterans hands in the West;

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...1&highlight=SA

However, look at what we have gleaned from that thread in the world of late war Third Reich KM badges,

Chris

[90th Light]

Just answer the question.
Not this waffle.

And to repeat,

The relevance of this question is ???


SS smocks by textbook makers are different in some ways when compared with each other ?

SS smocks by textbook makers are different in some ways when compared to a Pink/ Brick/ Birch smock ?

SS smocks by textbook makers are different in some ways when comparing examples made early in the war with examples made later in the war ?

Same with other areas of collecting Third Reich Militaria too

However, comparisons between different makers is odious and that is a fact. Sure they provide an overview guideline and areas to study/ investigate/ research. However, they are only that, a guideline. It is when we compare products from the same maker that the "real-deal-footprints" can be documented. Even then there are differences between early verses late war, plus other variations from the same maker

You seem to be looking for a textbook, beyond doubt, one-looker SS smock that compares directly and maps one on one with a Pink/ Brick/ Birch smock.

Until you find that (which we know you will not) then you are saying they must be fake. You know textbook and they are not textbook. We all agree they are not textbook but very nothing so far has proved they are not wartime, made before May 1945. In fact the investigations to date have proved quite the opposite.



Chris

[kammo man]

Specifically What SS camouflage pullovers have you handled ?

[90th Light]

Specifically What SS camouflage pullovers have you handled ?

List the models of SS smocks via nomenclature, abbreviation or even acronyms that you think I should have studied/ compared ???

However, it would be interesting to know what such comparisons prove ?

The Pink/ Birch/ Brick is different in several ways from the fully accepted text-book examples in collections today ?

They published a book in 1969 saying that Third Reich Militaria had and was being faked ?

What exactly are these revelations trying to disclose that was not already known ??? ,

Chris

p.s. I have a naive book published in the 1950's a lot like yours, warning about fake German WW2 items. No point in adding images here because people have seen enough of old books and that would be boring, as you so freely me accuse me of being. Now books about super-fakes made in the 21st Century by certain mafia dealers, that is a different story.

[kammo man]

So you can't simply answer the question.


I understand.


Chris

Your Therapy session is over for the day.


See you next week.
But please be on time
My time is precious.
You have been running 10 minutes late for the last year and its all adding up.

[90th Light]

So you can't simply answer the question.

I understand.

Chris

Your Therapy session is over for the day.

See you next week.
But please be on time
My time is precious.
You have been running 10 minutes late for the last year and its all adding up.

You write like a man of real life experience with such appointments. The old "Half the world is on Valium" syndrome

Put up a list with relevance and we will see if the models of smock are there. Will save any confusion over nomenclature,

Chris

[NZMark]

Not answering questions seems to be something you also have problems with, Owen. Many, many posts ago we were trying to establish birch smock sizes and you were politely asked the size of the example you used in several of the photos you posted. This was to establish if it indeed had shrunk due to high temperature washing, quite a relevant point.
Can you answer that question please?
Mark
NZ

[Robert H]

its known where those pink crap was produced, no one needs to lift answers or need to give answers. Champaign decals where also known for many years... Study and learn like others did and do.

[RobertE]

its known where those pink crap was produced, no one needs to lift answers or need to give answers. Champaign decals where also known for many years... Study and learn like others did and do.

That is interesting, Robert. If you have something authoritative to in terms of exactly where the brick smocks were produced, please post it. The decal comment is odd and not correct - I'm sure the collectors who paid thousands for the helmets didn't know they were fake "for many years".

s/f Robert

[90th Light]

its known where those pink crap was produced, no one needs to lift answers or need to give answers. Champaign decals where also known for many years... Study and learn like others did and do.

Well if there is a secret society or an inner circle of those in the know then this debate can finally be answered with proof or at least some certainity. That would be great. A ghost that haunts SS threads on WAF laid to rest.

However, I am yet to meet anyone who has sold a Pink/ Brick/ Birch smock for any where near the on-going very high, out of control prices that some SS helmets have sold for. Is there anyone who has made huge money out of Pinks ? If they are a fraud then get rich quick was not the motive.

Floch sold the Pinks for pennies on the dollar and others who have tried to sell them have not fared much better.

If only it was that simple, to know for sure exactly where they were produced,when and by who ? Here is hoping Nutmeg can talk to Floch.

I remain open-minded and await new information/ developments/ revelations,

Chris