worn oak camo cap

[mathluft]

Very nice one !!!!

[GAMS1]

Both caps are original !
Perfect textbook caps , no exotic local made "variations" !
Nick

[salt*creek]

How does a man sweat all over the bill of his cap, but keeps the part touching his hair clean and new?

[Jolly Roger]

How does a man sweat all over the bill of his cap, but keeps the part touching his hair clean and new?

The cap does not really have clean parts, just on its top. It looks a good deal different in hand than in the photos, probably a lighting issue.

One would have to analyse how people sweat into their caps. I would say the visor is also dirty from touching it in combination with sweating. I am not an expert in that very field though.

[Jolly Roger]

Here is the other one I had. The visor is relatively worn, the top inside is still minty and crisp.

[90th Light]

Does it mean that only one person is the leading "guru"in this section ?
(With the greatest respect for this person's knowledge however)

We have battled it out on a thing or two. I have come to respect his strengths in the subject but equally understand his areas weakness,

Chris

[kammo man]

Post 35 shows how vintage sweat appears after 70 plus years.
The oiling behaves like grease and shines then rots the cloth crumbling it.
The Fake cap has NEW dirt.

90th light has typically NO clue what he is taking about and only added his LIGHT comments as his typical pile on.....
Cheap shots as usual.

owen

[nutmeg]

Owen, when it comes to cheap shots I'm you have no equal.

[Jolly Roger]

Owen, the difference is that the plane tree cap has just sweat stains. I have worn out suits that look like that after a year or two. The other cap has sweat plus soiling.

With the greatest respect to your knowledge I really think you are dismissing an authentic piece here. I will have some experienced guys in europe have a hands on. The comments as well as private messages I received all say its real from the photos.

[kammo man]

Nutmeg
Who rattled your cage ?
You now think you you can call on SS cammo because you own a pink Smock ?

[kammo man]

Owen, the difference is that the plane tree cap has just sweat stains. I have worn out suits that look like that after a year or two. The other cap has sweat plus soiling.

With the greatest respect to your knowledge I really think you are dismissing an authentic piece here. I will have some experienced guys in europe have a hands on. The comments as well as private messages I received all say its real from the photos.

PM

Me
Send me the cap


i will look at cap and return it either way .


o

[90th Light]

Post 35 shows how vintage sweat appears after 70 plus years.
The oiling behaves like grease and shines then rots the cloth crumbling it.
The Fake cap has NEW dirt.

90th light has typically NO clue what he is taking about and only added his LIGHT comments as his typical pile on.....
Cheap shots as usual.

owen

Remember, even strengths can become weaknesses as we get older Owen, and the years rob us of what we once had

Chris

[Lostwith]

Having a piece of a real camo,good threads, and making from that copy of such cap is not a big matter for
someone, who really knows well,how they were produced.


That's what I must agree, and what I heard about my own cap (third in my collection so far).

What I can say to this thread is:

-Roger, if you trust to Kammo man opinion,then better forget about this both caps and request refund until it's not too late.

-If you like them, then keep them in your collection and be happy.


I decided to keep my own cap, (blurred edge camo) that Kammo man and some of you, including you,described as not
good,when many others told me, that cap is good or has a big chance to be good.

I wrote, and that should be also clear, that to make such cap today from real camo for skilled person is not a big matter.
However, I have to tell you something. This is not,that such garments need to have all seams made by double needle
machines. And also, that's obvious for all of you, that they were produced mainly in labour camps by prisoners, by Jews.
Many times then by unskilled “tailors”. Therefore many of your conclusions, that threads are not regular, are taken from
the bad source. That's how they are produced mainly today by fakers. They need to give them such possitive “first look”,
therefore they are so nicely made, well shaped, with so straight seams.
Think of this Gents, that prisoner never had time to think of such details! He had to work very,very fast, therefore he was
doing even some mistakes.

Another matter is that from WWII to now we have over than 70 years that gone.. During this long time such items existed,
and mainly not in nice collections. Instead of that they were used as civil cloths, were used by kids playing somewhere their
funny games,or were kept somewhere at the attics and wherever else. Then during this long time many things could happen
to them. Including bad damage. Strange stains, not battle made. Cuts sometimes, or any kind of interference.

Much easier is to make nice looking copy from real camo. However, there are sometimes things that can be discovered as wrong
by people with good knowledge.
If sweatband of your cap is just stained by oil, not by real sweat, then that's a thing I would be aware. Possibly Kammo man will
explain you more than I in this matter.

Otherwise, you (the same as I, and many other owners of such caps that are qustioned) have exactly two ways. Keep it, and be
happy, or request refund from your dealer.

*

To Kammo man:

Below I post picture of what should be inside of visor. That's something like pressed paper mass, and vanished to make it waterproof.
NOT animal skin, as you said should be inside.
I never heard, that there should be animal skin, but I'm open to hear what other collectors will say in the matter, including you.



My Regards

Lostwith

[90th Light]

Kammo man says, that visors of such caps should have animal skin inside..?

(I have a few field caps and all of their peaks inside are made from something that I could describe as prestoff, or cardboard, but definitely NOT leather. )


Below I have posted nice camo cap, also blurred edge, that has a small cut to the peak. As we can notice, there is Not animal skin inside, but something very similar to paper mass.








Lostwith

You are correct, It would be very rare indeed for leather to be used inside the bill of an SS Camo cap. In fact, it would also be very rare inside the bill of any original M43 cap. You only have to read the challenges that German industry was facing to see why. Take Jackboots for example;

"Originally 35–39 cm tall, the boots were shortened to 32–35 cm in 1939 in order to save leather. By 1940 leather was becoming more scarce and issue was restricted to combat branches, and in 1941 jackboots were no longer issued to new recruits. By late 1943 production of jackboots had ceased altogether. However, as late as fall 1944 depots were encouraged to issue Marschstiefel to infantry and artillery, to the extent they were available."



Increasingly what the Germans used to make the bill form/ shaper of an M43 type cap was made from an ersatz material. The cloth would then be sewn over this to make the bill of the cap.

"Preßstoff (Presstoff) is a type of ersatz or replacement leather used during the first half of the 20th century. Made of specially layered and treated paper pulp, Presstoff was durable and easily adapted to be used in place of leather. First invented in the 19th century, it gained its widest use in Germany during the Second World War

Presstoff use included but was not limited to binoculars cases and straps, horse tack, bayonet frogs, equipment belts, cap visors etc. In short, Presstoff could be used in almost every application normally filled by leather, excepting items like footwear that were repeatedly subjected to flex wear and/or moisture. Under these conditions Presstoff tended to delaminate and lose cohesion."

When they could not get Presstoff they used other ersatz materials like early forms of plastic. Have a read of this thread to see what I mean;

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=cap+bill+made

The point you make about what the cap bills were made from is a good one,

Chris

[Jolly Roger]

Owen, thank you for your very kind offer. I will send you a PM!

Lostwith, my minty cap has been generally accepted including owen. Please keep your visor material discussion in your own thread, this is off topic.

Best regards

Ben