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**Steve Mezey** · 11-10-2016, 04:49 PM

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**Steve Mezey** · 11-10-2016, 04:50 PM

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**Etienne B.** · 11-10-2016, 04:57 PM

Hi,

Please explain the ''controversial'' part ?

**FrenchVolunteer** · 11-10-2016, 05:17 PM

Hi,

"search function" :

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=619629

Those boxes are modern fakes, produced in UK in the 80's.
Used original homemade example, and produced to dozen if not hundred of copies.

Those fake wooden boxes were "legitimized" by a supposed original at the IWM (or original, or "given with a nice (fake) fantasy story" to legitimize the swindle), and oh strangely many books by various UK specialists started to "promote" them in the late 80's/early 90's (and still are. Examples : Ulric Woodhams book on the Allgemeine-SS, Robin Lumsden SS book...).
One SS wooden box was also included in one of the "Soldier Of Fortune" militaria catalogue of the middle 90's (i have it, it was shown only, not proposed for sale. Mostly reproductions in the catalogue).

To date, NO period picture, and all the "testimonies" are talking of SS wooden boxes that probably existed, but are never shown...

Original SS wooden boxes (with totally different design, more like small wooden chests with name of unit), not related directly to "Mein Kampf" exist, some were shown on the WAF, and the condition of lacquer/wood is looking nothing like those modern fakes.

Also no owner of this modern "SS bento box" took the chance to have their "artefact" tested by specialists in art objects, as it will be possible to identify if the wood is from pre-1945 or not... Oh strange.
And any cabinetmaker can copy this type of model easily (confirmed by one artist who did that only with HH pictures of an old sale !).

Please note that due to the easy money made, many dealers are still proposing them...

After the pink smock, the real-fake SS helmet cover, the fake CH painted runes helmet, the fake Totenkopfring, the fake SS dagger, this is amongst the last fake that is 1) good looking in any SS caveman room 2) cost nothing to produce and is sold for hundred of GBP 3) lack of search of those fakes, as they were legitimized by too many "specialists"... Clever marketed fake for sure.

I advice you to sell it for a lot of money and get something nice and real instead...

See You

Vince

**Steve Mezey** · 11-10-2016, 05:18 PM

some good some bad

I have been led to believe some collectors believe in them being produced pre-1945 ( Germany,Third Reich)while other collectors believe they are post war produced fantasy pieces from the UK? I am looking for a general consensus and an opinion on this particular example. It has been offered to me and I just want to get the feel of what you guys think. That is all I do not want to start an argument.

Thanks
Steve

**Steve Mezey** · 11-10-2016, 05:22 PM

Thanks Vince

Thanks Vince
I did use the search function and read as much as I could but thought maybe more had come to light since then. Anyway thanks very much.
Steve

**FrenchVolunteer** · 11-10-2016, 05:26 PM

Hi,

anyone can believe that the UFOs saved Hitler on April 30, 1945...
History and science are based (mainly) on facts.
There is nothing on this case, no fact so far.

"I think this is pre-1945" = "i think that giant lezards are ruling this world".
This is an opinion, nothing more...

A dozen of boxes are sold/proposed for sale each year, this is an industrial fake similar to the fake painted CH runes helmet.

There is a lot of idi... collectors ready to pay for them (same as for all the fakes i listed below), this is business at his best. Demand vs. offer.

In science, if you can't prove something, then you are discredited.
In the militaria world it is the contrary (you need to prove that something is fake, if not it is real), oh stupid is that ? Totally illogical.

See You

Vince

**FrenchVolunteer** · 11-10-2016, 05:29 PM

Hi,

Steve,

you're welcome, if i had the money (and i have it), i will not touch them.

If i was a bad boy, i will pay a guy to start again the production (i'm not sure it is still produced) as it is really easy money (those boxes are sold from 1000 to 2000 euros).

I will look more for something "nice" and confirmed as good.
For the same price, you can get one, two or three good looking SS cuff titles.

See You

Vince

**FrenchVolunteer** · 11-10-2016, 05:36 PM

Hi,

Robin Lumsden book, published in 1992, earlier so far publication in which the SS bento box is presented.

Please note that i'm not implying that those UK writers/specialists were paid or had contacts with the fakers, they probably were tricked like all the other collectors.
But it is easy to give a nice deal to a known collector, who will in return can be used : "Mr. X owns one of those boxes/showed one of the boxes in his book" (= it is real as Mr. X is a specialist and advanced collector).

Also i suspect that many collectors knows more about those boxes...

See You

Vince

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**FrenchVolunteer** · 11-10-2016, 05:39 PM

Hi,

Soldier Of Fortune catalogue for 1995 if i'm right (i have it in my collection).

The box is presented on page 9. Great memories from this catalogue, mostly repros, but a lot of original Allied WWII and Vietnam area items.

See You

Vince

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**james m** · 11-10-2016, 05:50 PM

I, and I expect a lot of collectors, think these boxes are really neat. However; Over the years I have looked at every SS photo and publication I could find in the hopes of a period picture coming up to show they were actually made during the 3rd Reich. To date I have not found any and have had to conclude these being period pieces is in all likelihood dubious. I would like to hear Robin Lumsden's current opinion but apparently he no longer posts here.
Jim

**FrenchVolunteer** · 11-10-2016, 06:06 PM

Hi,

Ulric Woodhams great book about the Allgemeine-SS (2013 French edition, average translation unfortunately...).

Ulric admits that the "regulations about the SS bento box that can be ordered for the SS mariage" are unknown...

This is like giving the whole fantasy story of the "Majestic 12" with on side note "all the infos are unconfirmed and unsourced". Yeah right.

See You

Vince

PS : i'm pretty sure that we can identify the wood original location, it could be very interesting to know from which location it is taken...

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**FrenchVolunteer** · 11-10-2016, 06:14 PM

Hi,

do you think that any collectors/specialists who presented those fakes in their books for decades will openly say

"sorry, i have no proof that all those identical SS bento boxes that were sold since the late 80's are mostly fakes and coming from good old England and i showed unfortunately one in my book that was used by thousand of SS collectors as reference" ?

I'm sure that Robin and Ulric were tricked by a very nice story.

Militaria collecting is a (big) business, not an act of truth or honesty (or skepticism)...

Like the SS painted CH runes helmet, those SS bento boxes are coming from a single location in the world (here : UK).

See You

Vince

**11C** · 11-10-2016, 06:42 PM

http://www.ulricofengland.com/index....07195jqip9l134

The hits just keep on coming......

Free box .......expensive story.

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