SS bullion sleeve eagles

[all1knew]

Hello all,

May I please have opinion on these two? Can you confirm the one is not a Sieder fake and the other is an authentic Belgian produced variant?

William Kramer

[all1knew]

2

[Stossgruppe3]

Can you confirm the one is not a Sieder fake
William Kramer

As far as I can tell ....
I feel you might of guessed right Sir ....
Regards David

[Patrick W]

Both are fake for me, 1st has rounded shoulders which is pretty typical of Sieder eagles and similar copies as well as the embroidery of the swaz and wreath being incorrect. 2nd bears no resemblance to any original Belgian eagle I have seen.

[Raymond270]

I believe the bottom eagle to be original

[Novosibirsk]

The first lower good, original!

[TonyS]

Both are fake for me, 1st has rounded shoulders which is pretty typical of Sieder eagles and similar copies as well as the embroidery of the swaz and wreath being incorrect. 2nd bears no resemblance to any original Belgian eagle I have seen.

Rounded shoulders? They look squared off to me.

But I agree on your second part - the Swastika is not done in the correct bullion, the wings lack the black highlight threads and the eagle has no feet - a typical RZM eagle should have these done correctly. A fairly good fake in my opinion - but no cigar.

[ww2.collector]

The first lower good, original!

For me its a sieder from austria produced after wartime
reason is as said befor, swastika, some detaills in the wings and the claws

[11C]

Both are fake for me, 1st has rounded shoulders which is pretty typical of Sieder eagles and similar copies as well as the embroidery of the swaz and wreath being incorrect. 2nd bears no resemblance to any original Belgian eagle I have seen.

Dead right Patrick...........both are bad, not even close IMO.
Tinsiling is wrong on the Swastiza on the RZM example and the lower wing outlining is not correct on the second model as well (should be black with different bullion between the upper under-wing and the lower "defined" feathers).

[Raymond270]

Original?

[11C]

Not for me.........
Leg and foot structure is not consistent with RZM examples. I also don't like the tinseling on the wreath at 9 o'clock. Wing proportions are too short relative to body length. This maybe a very late war example, but I don't buy that many red flags.

[Novosibirsk]

Not for me.........
Leg and foot structure is not consistent with RZM examples. I also don't like the tinseling on the wreath at 9 o'clock. Wing proportions are too short relative to body length. This maybe a very late war example, but I don't buy that many red flags.

There is a lot of original options u of a variation of this type of officer eagles.
Often even absolutely not similar at each other, because everything they were embroidered manually and different producers, different in details and quality.

[11C]

There is a lot of original options u of a variation of this type of officer eagles.
Often even absolutely not similar at each other, because everything they were embroidered manually and different producers, different in details and quality.

Bullion officer's eagle insignia do vary throughout the period as you suggested, but not nearly as much when it comes to SS eagles. RZM style eagles are very consistent in conformation as required by the RZM, and there were very few "companies" allowed to produce SS insignia in general. There is not the wide range of style as there is in other areas.