TK I in wear

[Michael73]

I was able to find this portrait - should serve as good photographic reference for these early Oberbayern tabs..

Thanks for looking
Michael

[tobau]

[Robert H]

Super!

[Michael73]

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[mario]

Michael super photo and outstanding close up that allows to see a lot of details.

[chrischa]

Michael super photo and outstanding close up that allows to see a lot of details.

You said it!

[Ludwig]

Very nice photo!

[Helbe]

I have seen different kind of Totenkopf tabs but I really don't know their official use. Some with roman numerals (I've seen tabs numbered I and II so far), and others with arabic numerals. These seem more "common" on pictures. I have seen tabs numbered from 1 up to 20.
Are they only related with Oberbayern ? Can somebody please explain it to me?

[Disco Partisan]

I have seen different kind of Totenkopf tabs but I really don't know their official use. Some with roman numerals (I've seen tabs numbered I and II so far), and others with arabic numerals. These seem more "common" on pictures. I have seen tabs numbered from 1 up to 20.
Are they only related with Oberbayern ? Can somebody please explain it to me?

Basically initially there were five SS-Totenkopfstandarten (Oberbayern was one of them). Officers wore Roman numbers corresponding their Standarte as follows:

I - Oberbayern
II - Elbe
III - Sachsen
IV - Ostfriesland
V - Brandenburg

Each SS-Totenkopfstandarte consisted of four Hundertschafts. Other ranks wore the Arabic number of their Hundertschaft.

In fact it is a bit more complicated because these SS-Totenkopfstandarten went through re-organization: in 1937 these five were reorganized into three and "Brandenburg" became "II" and then two years later two new SS-Totenkopfstandarten added: "IV" Ostmark IV in 1938 and "V" Dietrich Eckhardt in 1939.

But you don't have to worry about this as in the picture is Oberbayern guy. Oberbayern was always "I". And Mollo says in his book that unlike in all other SS-Totenkopfstandarten in Oberbayern officers and other ranks - both wore Roman numbar of their Standarte on the collar tab, which is "I"

[derek]

It's actually a little more complicated than that I'm afraid Disco Partisan.
During the period you refer to from 1935 to 1937 (when there were 5 Totenkopfsturmbanne) the number of Hundertschaeften was 25.

Oberbayern had 8.
Elbe had 5.
Sachsen had 4.
Ostfriesland had 4.
Brandenburg had 4.

Only members of the staff of the sturmbann wore the Roman numerals. Officers and men of a hundertschaeft wore their respective Arabic number.
As you rightly say, it gets even more complicated after 1937 when the companies were re-organised twice ending up with 32 Hundertschaeften.
Add to that the existence of a photograph of a man wearing the Brandenburg cypher and the Roman numeral "I" which would seem to indicate that the Roman numerals later designated sturmbanne within each of the 3 Totenkopf regiments.
If there is a more complicated and confusing area of SS insignia than the SS-TV I have yet to find it!

[codytrcollector]

It's actually a little more complicated than that I'm afraid Disco Partisan.
During the period you refer to from 1935 to 1937 (when there were 5 Totenkopfsturmbanne) the number of Hundertschaeften was 25.

Oberbayern had 8.
Elbe had 5.
Sachsen had 4.
Ostfriesland had 4.
Brandenburg had 4.

Only members of the staff of the sturmbann wore the Roman numerals. Officers and men of a hundertschaeft wore their respective Arabic number.
As you rightly say, it gets even more complicated after 1937 when the companies were re-organised twice ending up with 32 Hundertschaeften.
Add to that the existence of a photograph of a man wearing the Brandenburg cypher and the Roman numeral "I" which would seem to indicate that the Roman numerals later designated sturmbanne within each of the 3 Totenkopf regiments.
If there is a more complicated and confusing area of SS insignia than the SS-TV I have yet to find it!

As usual, Mr. Derek is correct in his evaluation of a subject that requires arduous study and dedication. Thank you sir; know your contributions do not go unappreciated.

[MM1985]

1

[MM1985]

Many thanks for the interesting replys - i still try to understand the use of this Tabs and it seem really confusing because they where also worn by members of the Standarte Brandenburg like Mr. Derek stated before.

[sam1chlt]

Great photos!

[derek]

Thank you very much MM1985 for posting that shot of the Brandenburg man wearing an overcoat. It is a very interesting and useful photograph as the wear of the soutache on the field cap dates it to 1939 or possibly early 1940.
This would fit with one theory of mine that when the SS-TV regiments were re-organised in May 1938 and the sturmbann were simple numbered within each regiment, a much simpler method was adopted of identifying which sturmbann an individual belonged to rather than the hundertschaft system.