4th Nederland Brigade Officers tunic

[NickG]

Well, this tunic was already presented before in the Army (Heer) section, so some will recognize it...
but since now that I bought it and have studied it, I now have ID'd it better, so I decided to give it a 2nd go
in the Waffen SS section for reviews.

Here the original thread;
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...utch+gabardine

and the tunic with its (replaced) Heer artillery collar insignia....Army Collar tabs post war added (per the seller) and eagle very obviously
placed in the wrong position...
All signs of a restoration!..misidentified!

[NickG]

and a side views, typical Dutch skirt pockets, unpleated...

[NickG]

The back view shows a typical German back panel with center seam as opposed to a "rock" cut as seen on Waffentocks as well as Dutch army uniforms...
It also has the German button count as opposed to the prewar Dutch 7 button arrangement. So it is a hybrid, some Dutch tailoring traits but also German...
Early Dutch Legion uniforms were usually converted Dutch officers tunics with modified collars...This one I believe was tailored sometime in the 1943 period which
explains it mimicking German tunics, (6 button count) but still clearly foreign (Dutch) tailoring in Dutch gabardine.

Collar tabs hand stitched on with machine stitching from an older application still showing...

[NickG]

The collar tabs were post war added to match the period shoulderboards. Because it was identified as Army (Heer) a breast eagle was also added, but in the wrong spot.
It is I believe a Dutch foreign volunteer tunic that was denazified and post war restored incorrectly....

The collar tabs are hand stitched on but still show remains of an earlier machine stitched application...clearly a restoration job...
It has a typical odd looking Dutch style stand up-fall down collar....

[NickG]

Such tunics with strange collars were made all the way through 1944-1945.
(again early Dutch Legion tunics were simply modified off the rack Dutch army officers uniforms... which this one is NOT!).
The 4th Nederland Freiw.Pz.Brig was formed in 1943.
This photo shows a sister unit officer in Landstorm Nederland.
Same material tunic with strange collar (and insignia) again all from Dutch sources!

[NickG]

Now in the army thread this very same uniform was discussed and I was ridiculed because there was no proof that it was Dutch...
I myself was not even sure actually, throwing the Croatian tailoring idea out there...Some thought perhaps Austrian gray-ish Gabardine...
Who knows??? or rather who knew?

Well the tunic's true "unit origin" was already there for everybody to see! BUT ONLY IF YOU PAY ATTENTION !!!

[NickG]

Dutch wool and a Dutch cypher!!!

In the Heer forum thread on this tunic this cypher was incorrectly identified as a Weimar era "Reichswehr" transitional insignia....WRONG!!!
Well its as Dutch as the uniform and its wool!
Here is an enlisted Dutch Regimental cypher....
(In the pre war Dutch army these numerals were worn strictly on the head gear!)

[NickG]

Now the proof! The money shot! The officers grade Regimental numeral (used as W-SS Brigade identifier)

[NickG]

The boards are 100% original to the tunic and the Dutch tailor used a prewar Dutch Kepi numeral to show the W-SS Freiw.unit.
Using Heer pattern boards was very common in the W-SS, especially in foreign countries where proper SS insignia was harder to obtain.
The same can be said about the cyphers...The tailor decided to use pre war Dutch cyphers...because those were available at the time (circa 1943)

This makes me conclude based on the unit identifier that it is an officers tunic for a member of the 4.SS-Freiwilligen-Panzer-Grenadier-Brigade 'Nederland'.

Some history from the web:

W-SS Nederland, 4th Brigade and later re-designated 23rd Division

The 4th SS Freiw.Pz-Gren. Brig. "Nederland" (Volunteer Mechanized Infantry Brigade) was formed in October 1943 from the former Legion Nederland and new recruits to the Waffen-SS initially assembled for incorporation into the SS Nordland Division, but instead formed into one of the 1943 assault brigades. It consisted of two mechanized infantry regiments, named 48th "General Seyffardt" and 49th "De Ruiter", the 54th Artillery Regiment, as well as engineer and armored reconnaissance battalions and a signal company. Dutch volunteers formed about half of the ranks of the infantry, the rest being ethnic Germans, most from Romania and Hungary. The Brigade fought under the III Germanic SS Corps at Oranienbaum, Narva, the Courland Pocket, and West Prussia, suffering heavy casualties such that few Dutch volunteers may have remained in the Brigade, when it was destroyed outside Berlin in April 1945. In December, 1944, the 54th SS Artillery Regiment was added to the brigade, which was nominally designated the 23rd SS "Nederland" Volunteer Mechanized Infantry Division, but it remained a division solely on paper.

This 1943 image showing a Nederland Brigade Artillery soldier still wearing his older "Nederland Legion" insignia which many did...
(after the unit was rebuilt and re-designated 4th Brigade, later re-numbered 23rd Division when it reached that size...on paper at least...)

[NickG]

Now that the unit is identified a proper W-SS restoration can start!
(cuff title is a filler...but well made) Would like to get better tabs...will see...(or demote?)
The uniform is well worth a proper Dutch SS restoration to 4th Brigade.
I wonder if the Hauptsturmfuhrer can be identified in the artillery component of the 4th "Niederlande" Brigade?





Most Dutch artillery officers came from that branch in the Dutch Army, completed the Bad Tolz Fuhrer Lehrgang and were than
sent off to the SS Artillery School at Jüterbog, a large Heer artillery truppenubungsplatz south of Berlin for training and command instructions,
taught the German way.

The artillery component of "Nederland"would have worn the parent unit cypher as well as the parent unit Cuff title (Nederland) as it was a Brigade asset,
while on the other hand its two infantry regiments would have worn their Regimental numerals ("48" + "49") on their officer boards + Reg. cuff titles... (De Ruyter + Gen.Seyffardt)
So the "4" makes perfect sense for an Artillery officer in the 4th Nederland Brigade + "Nederland" CT of it's parent organization. (or no cuff title, not belonging to the Inf.Regiments)

It all comes together perfectly when you connect the dots!

[NickG]

When the Nederland Brigade further expanded and became a Divisional strength unit "Nederland", its Artillery component also grew into a regimental size formation
and I believe it than became known as "SS-Artillery-Regiment 54"... (now simply showing the parent Brigade cypher "4" of the Dutch Brigade, an earlier designator
for this evolving and growing unit.
Am I right?

[PZKG]

Are there any signs of an arm eagle?
If not I think it is a load of wishfull thinking.

[NickG]

Are there any signs of an arm eagle?
If not I think it is a load of wishfull thinking.

Well I am just connecting dots here...What would make it NOT Dutch?
Dutch cloth, Dutch tailoring, Dutch unit cypher mounted on original applied boards + post war added Heer breast and post war added Heer artillery collar insignia...
all indicative of a restoration of a denazified foreign tailored German uniform...of which most (or all) were obviously in service of the W-SS (in The Netherlands).
Add to that all the known period images of Dutch officers wearing very similar (or same) uniforms with same or similar Dutch tailoring...
I agree nothing concrete but also nothing too far fetched either...
(and add to that the fact that the uniform was not sold as SS either...)

Agreed that skepticism in this hobby is prevalent and understandable but WHICH unit (Heer?) or German officer in general would wear something like this non regulation cut piece
to include a Dutch "4" cyphers ????
As soon as it arrives I will be checking for traces of former insignia. If the insignia was handstitched on in '43-'45 and removed shortly thereafter very little might show,
especially if this is a closet survivor...no fading...So denazified and restored to Heer because of the Heer boards (which were very commonly used by the W-SS as we all know).

Can you name a (Netherlands based?) German (army?) unit with cypher "4" where somebody would wear a uniform in Dutch cloth, Dutch cypher with Dutch tailoring...?
That only happened with NIEDERLANDE freiwilligen...Here some more very similar uniforms...to include wider than usual chest pocket pleats, another Dutch trait!

[NickG]

Well if the tunic is related to 4. Brigade "Nederland" a better match would actually be its FLAK Abteilung, a Brigade asset... as opposed to artillery...
This since the artillery abteilung (same red waffenfarbe) grew into a Regiment and was designated SS - Artillerie-Regiment "54" ....(not plain "4" as in Brig. asset)

4. SS-Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Brigade „Nederland“ befohlen ;

Im Zeitabschnitt der 2. Hälfte des Jahres 1943 bestand für die Brigade Nederland diese Gliederung:

SS - Freiwilligen- Panzergrenadier-Reg. "48" "General Seyffardt" (niederl. Nr. 1)

SS - Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Reg. "49" "De Ruyter" (niederl. Nr. 2)

SS - Artillerie-Regiment "54"

SS - Panzer-Jagd-Abteilung (4.Brigade)

SS - Pionier-Battallion (4.Brigade)

SS - Flak-Abteilung (4.Brigade)

SS - Feldersatz-Batallion (4.Brigade)

1 Aufklärungs-Kompanie (4.Brigade)

1 Nachrichten-Kompanie (4.Brigade)

die Versorgungseinheit 54 (sanitaeter)
_________________________________________________

So I am calling it a potential FLAK uniform der 4. SS-Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Brigade „Nederland“ (with "4" shoulder numeral) a Brigade asset.
Besides its two (2) inf.Regiments the other units did NOT wear cuff titles usually, nor Dutch legion shields unless these were carry overs from legion veterans,
who were absorbed in the 4. Brigade... so little if no insignia ghosts would remain...

[Stossgruppe3]

Interesting to see that a forward leaning runic tab here ....
Is there any chance to see the back ?
Regards David