Six button front, officer-type turnback cuffs and interior sword hanger on a junior NCO runic, large, "old fat man" size for a junior soldier - I don't think this was a W-SS tunic for a junior sergeant.
s/f Robert
s/f Robert
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I think the bottom line on this tunic is that there are quite a few things about it that are a little odd, but we can explain how any one of them could have happened. But ALL of them on one tunic? IMHO proceed with caution.Comment
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Except for the strap piping it would fit the profile of a KL old timer ... IF you want to believe the rest of what we see there.Originally posted by RobertE View Post
IanComment
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Thanks for the comments everyone!Comment
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On a sewn in board, that's a pretty big "if". The boards are the only "fixed" piece of insignia and are presumably correct for the uniform. We know line infantry companies got stuck with security at some camps when the KL personnel were relieved at the end of the war, but they were in their wartime field uniforms.Originally posted by Ian Hulley View Post
However - stranger things have happened. I would buy it for value of the parts, no more.
regards, RobertComment
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It looks as though the lining shoulder seams have been pretty crudely resewn from what I see.Originally posted by RobertE View Post
IanComment
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It's as professionally done as any other tailor made tunic of the period - nothing wrong at all with the quality of the work, IMO.
But if it was crudely done, that would really be cause for dismissing the tunic, and the sewing of the rest of the insignia a moot point.
s/f RobertComment
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This tunic has so many red flags, that I could not imagine anyone that would be comfortable with it in their collection. It would take me 60 seconds to decide to pass on it, if it was offered to me.Comment
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The rank is kind of low for this quality tunic, I agree, but that's not automatically a red flag... I have a (Dutch tailored) Feldgendarmerie uniform (named with provenance) of the exact same rank, SEW-INS, narrow tailor made straps! and made by a top Dutch tailor who also did an SS generals uniform in Holland (for SS Gen.Keppler) both survived with exact same maker tag, and both been posted on WAF...Originally posted by DKNYC71 View Post
This tailor btw was the prewar Royal Court appointed tailor of the Prince of the Netherlands,husband of the future queen no less!
The best quality you can buy!
The tunic was custom made for a lowly Unteroffizier MP in officers grade smooth wool, to include matching breeches and visor in ribbed gabardine. He obviously wanted a smart open neck office tunic, ("buro dienstrock") while working at a local Ortskommandantur,
on occupation duty in the Netherlands in 1941!
What I am trying to say is that it happened...TK uniform could be an SS staff driver on occupation duty...driver of an SS General or something...
The TK tabs might be kind of late (pumpkin)...but the shoulderstraps can very well be tailor made from scratch with rayon cord by the tailor
at any time during the war...even as early as 1940.
Please feel free to share and list the "many" red flags! I would be interested to know (and learn!) I honestly just don't see it!
The tresse is nicely aged and matches perfectly (collar + straps). There are no signs of any re-applications, no signs of rebuilding/restoring
and the base tunic is obviously not a fake...
Here some comparison material.Last edited by NickG; 12-10-2015, 11:47 PM.Comment
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All custom made in officers quality wool for this Feldgendarmerie Unteroffizier!
Riding breeches shown here...
Note tailor tag address and his "standort" (duty station location) match exactly!Last edited by NickG; 12-10-2015, 11:31 PM.Comment
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Note the quality of workmanship, padded shoulders even and a unique custom touch:
A dagger hangar slit reinforced in orange feldgendarmerie farbe cloth!
Again done for a lowly Unteroffizier! Note sew-in straps! The tresse loops I added and these slide right off!
It is the same ranks and a very fancy tunic! NEVER SAY NEVER!Last edited by NickG; 12-10-2015, 11:41 PM.Comment
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Nick, thanks for posting that fine set to illustrate your point. Yes, it is certainly possible the tunic that started the thread is original, just unlikely IMO.
I have a dark blue gabardine Luftwaffe four pocket tunic tailored for a junior sergeant that is way overbuilt. Your point is well made.
regards, RobertComment
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No question. In pic #2 the sewing of the TK tab was immediately suspect.Originally posted by DKNYC71 View Post
In pic#4, something about the way that the right side of the shoulder strap is inserted is tremendously off-putting. In pic #5, I don't like the sewing of the eagle at all. I'd like a look at the inside of the sleeve here.
While there is no evidence of Heer tabs ever being there in pic #3, it doesn't look old under there either. Could that blue material have been added recently to remove old stitch-holes? Look at the black thread.
I agree with the concerns that Ian and Robert and others have expressed. My eyes rarely lie to me, but they are trying to do backflips when I look at these photos . . .
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It does not look old because exactly as you state, it is "under there" it is protected by UV,protected by the elements...these areas hardly ever look old...for that reason...its "under there"...and it is not a combat uniform, its a best dress uniform or "buro dienstrock"...Originally posted by SgtB View Post
= office uniform for his desk job, or driver (staff function) so no wear no nothing...I could be wrong but I see no tampering, no re-stitching,
no immediate red flags other than that this "ranker", technically not a junior NCO, instead a Senior corporal...had very deep pockets!
I have a Luftwaffe Obergefreiter uniform (corporal) made in officers "tuch", custom made with matching pants. Its all about deep pockets and appearance preferences! (and position/function that tolerated the wearing of such high grade uniforms by corporals)
This LW obergefreiter probably had a cushy job in a communications center and chose to have a nice officers gabardine uniform made with matching straight pants from the same tailor...or its his best dress "Ausgehe" uniform, maybe he needed it and got married in it, who knows?
Either way another example of top quality private purchase garments with very low rank! It happened!
(looks near mint, especially behind the collar...prestine)Last edited by NickG; 12-11-2015, 12:35 AM.Comment
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Here is an example of an SS-Oberscharfuhrer in SD service. (he is identified as just an SS-Scharfuhrer actually but I see a pip...)
As we know SD in general did often wear spiffier uniforms, usually open neck gabardine, regardless of rank but this particular SS-sergeant
(Erich Dichtl) is actually wearing a complete officers quality gabardine uniform , including riding breeches and riding boots while on field duty!
The M43 cap is no doubt also gabardine smooth wool, matching the officer's quality uniform!
He was tasked to organize a local defense force in Slovenia in 1944 and because of his position of authority, the circumstances demanded for
a "way above the norm" flashy uniform! It happened! Note officer's style French cuffs!
Second image he is handing out awards...Last edited by NickG; 12-11-2015, 01:34 AM.Comment
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