Dachau pattern shields in wear

[Marcel Banziger]

This is a photo from Dutch volunteer Gerardus Mooyman but I can not see which exact insignia he wears on his sleeve.



Dutch officers, again, hard to see the exact insignia.

[wolfslair44]

Very interesting study. These photos show some wearing cuff title, while others not. The cuff title worn by the Danish solider looks very 'high up' the sleeve relative to others seen, but may be just the angle of his arm/sleeve.

Thanks everyone for sharing the photos.

[NickG]

This is a photo from Dutch volunteer Gerardus Mooyman but I can not see which exact insignia he wears on his sleeve.

Those 2 Dutch examples are well known earlier period images showing the shield with diagonal design as worn during the earlier "Nederland Legion" period.
(also shown Latvian officers, a mixed group)
Those type shields were of course also still used after the Legion was disbanded and most volunteers ending up in "Nederland" Div. continued the wear of the earlier Leg. shield!
I am after the later Dachau black bordered designs! Unfortunately these are not it... Dutch worn examples would be great to find! Keep digging!

The Estonians btw nick-named their shields the "mourning shield" because around the time these were widely issued most of Estonia was already occupied by the Soviets...
and grieving that event...loss of territory...loss of home to go back to...(many later emigrated to Canada, Australia etc...)
The black backing, outlining the national colors was a sign of mourning their loss...
Drifting a little bit off topic, but here's an interesting photo: an Australian Veteran's association sub branch "Estonian Legion" vet! and yes he has a Bandenkampf Abzeichen too!
(last medal on bar)
His blazer crest = for Australian war vets! Pretty wild combination!

[Martyn1]

Here are some photos copied from one of the short-lived English language editions of "Militaria" magazine, July 1995.

This tunic was allegedly worn in British captivity by a member of the Charlmagne Division. The insignia was removed during captivity and reapplied after his return to France.

The group photo was taken at Wildflecken training camp, Lower Franconia.

I don't know how one assesses the veracity of the story.

Mike

What a cracking magazine that was.....still have all the English language copies

[prowler88]

This is a photo from Dutch volunteer Gerardus Mooyman but I can not see which exact insignia he wears on his sleeve.



Dutch officers, again, hard to see the exact insignia.

It can be Latvian

[NickG]

D = Dutch (vertical Wolfhook collar patches)
L = Latvian (just 1 officer)

[Marcel Banziger]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlvJvuVrtoA

This video, at 6:50 shows the shield you're looking for if I'm correct. The footage at the start is from the Ernst Casimir Kazerne which is nowadays an outlet (used to live there across the street up till last year).

[NickG]

Now this gets interesting, contribution by Chris S a while ago, repeated here:

A Latvian serving in the British Army of the Rhine (1948) who has attached a wartime Latvian Dachau shield to his tunic to designate his Latvian unit!


BOTTOM another (not widely circulated) image of the black bordered Dachau style shield being worn by Latvian W-SS recruits!

[Sturmmann]

Here is an untouched and authentic tunic with Dachau shield on the left sleeve. Belonged to an estonian L. Saare (on the period photo) who was mobilized in 1944 and served in 20th Estonian SS Division and took part of the Battle of the Blue Hills from 27.07 until 30.07. On 30.07.1944 his brother H. was killed in artillery fire and L. got 5 days vacation. After the vacation he didn't return to the unit.

It is actually a Wehrmacht tunic with SS insignia, it has never had an SS eagle on the sleeve.

[NickG]

Here is an untouched and authentic tunic with Dachau shield on the left sleeve. Belonged to an estonian L. Saare (on the period photo) who was mobilized in 1944 and served in 20th Estonian SS Division and took part of the Battle of the Blue Hills from 27.07 until 30.07. On 30.07.1944 his brother H. was killed in artillery fire and L. got 5 days vacation. After the vacation he didn't return to the unit.

It is actually a Wehrmacht tunic with SS insignia, it has never had an SS eagle on the sleeve.

GREAT uniform Sturmmann!!!! With black mourning band attached to the lapel, grieving over his brother's loss!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlvJvuVrtoA

This video, at 6:50 shows the shield you're looking for if I'm correct. The footage at the start is from the Ernst Casimir Kazerne which is nowadays an outlet (used to live there across the street up till last year).

Thanks! Hard to tell, but great contribution!
Definitely a shield worn late war by a Dutchman (in Landstorm Nederland most likely!)
which indeed appears to be in a horizontal design! (like the Dachau shields)

[wolfslair44]

Those 2 Dutch examples are well known earlier period images showing the shield with diagonal design as worn during the earlier "Nederland Legion" period.
(also shown Latvian officers, a mixed group)
Those type shields were of course also still used after the Legion was disbanded and most volunteers ending up in "Nederland" Div. continued the wear of the earlier Leg. shield!
I am after the later Dachau black bordered designs! Unfortunately these are not it... Dutch worn examples would be great to find! Keep digging!

The Estonians btw nick-named their shields the "mourning shield" because around the time these were widely issued most of Estonia was already occupied by the Soviets...
and grieving that event...loss of territory...loss of home to go back to...(many later emigrated to Canada, Australia etc...)
The black backing, outlining the national colors was a sign of mourning their loss...
Drifting a little bit off topic, but here's an interesting photo: an Australian Veteran's association sub branch "Estonian Legion" vet! and yes he has a Bandenkampf Abzeichen too!
(last medal on bar)
His blazer crest = for Australian war vets! Pretty wild combination!

Very true. One of my good friends' grandfather came over to Canada from Estonia after serving in the W-SS. He said his grandfather and 'his buddies from the war' used to get together frequently.

[Winkelman]

Sorry to disappoint you Nick , but I do not think that last picture is of the Dachau version .
In a better picture , you can clearly see that it is wide and narrow , with a light coloured border , similar to the one on the right ( not a Dachau one either ) ..

[Winkelman]

What we are in fact looking at IMO : the wide horizontal version , which was sometimes worn by Dutch Kriegsberichter .
Why they would have yet another version of their own , is beyond me ..

[NickG]

Yeah those are the so called "Kriegsberichter" pattern Dutch rectangular flag shields...(as these were often worn by Dutch KB-zug men...)
I was thinking about that possibility as well, especially since the flag has light colored edge high lights...a lot more apparent in your higher quality
version of this portrait picture! but the shape was not obvious to me in my poorer quality shot....
That is a good possibility indeed and actually most likely a match... because of that border...! Not Dachau after all...oh well...You are right Winkelman!
Dutch Dachau examples are just not out there...impossible to find in period images...That leaves us so far with just 1 possible...(Post# 12)

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

@ Mike Swan : the English edition seemed to be include the full article about the "Charlemagne" in Berlin published on "Militaria Magazine N°111" of June 1995.
Article written by the specialist and collector on the subject Eric Lefèvre.




The story is legit. The jacket was the one of Robert Soulat, translator and secretary at the HQ of the "Charlemagne". He was able to keep it when he came back to France as POW, and the insignas were hidden in the jacket when he sent it for cleaning at home when he was in prison.
The jacket is now in M. Lefèvre's collection.

See You

Vince