SS stitches

[n160]

There's one bit of ignorance being propagated by experts who apparently have never used a sewing machine. (This obviously applies universally, not just SS items, but it keeps cropping up here so....)

Whether a machine is powered "automatically" (electric motor) or "by hand" (treadle) has no effect on the consistency of the stitch length.



The stitch length is determined by iron gears and cams in the machine head- not by how fast or erratically the pulley turns. (above) Whether the pulley is turned by motor,
by hand, foot treadle or mule on a conveyor has no bearing on this . It's the same principle as turning a car axle by hand or with the engine- the ring and pinion gears control
how many turns of the driveshaft = one wheel rotation.

All sewing machines have a length adjustment. Proving this fact greatly annoyed Mike Beaver who insisted that "all German sewing machines have a specific stitch length."
The fact is that there was a production specification for stitch length that the factory set their machines to.



ANY sewing machine can be powered by motor or manually...even a new one.



The neatness of the stitches depends on the thread tension (set on the machine), thread type & quality, fabric thickness, and needle type. Going too fast can lead to frequent thread breakage.

These are very, very, VERY basic mechanical facts that are so painfully easy to prove that it makes my head spin. If you took a sewing class they'd likely all be addressed on the first day.
Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of sewing, or any sewing machine mechanic or dealer can confirm this for those still subscribing to the hokus-pokus methods of textile forensics. Enjoy.

[espenlaub]

I will add, sometimes the stitchings on the fake caps are really recognizable, due of slow motion of the faker, who didn't make them daily 12 hours in the day as it was norm in Dachau. Also I have seen the picture taken in Dachau workshop, where the keyhole machines during the work. At least from 4 different, I remember Dürkopp and Reece.

[PMan]

I will add, sometimes the stitchings on the fake caps are really recognizable, due of slow motion of the faker, who didn't make them daily 12 hours in the day as it was norm in Dachau. Also I have seen the picture taken in Dachau workshop, where the keyhole machines during the work. At least from 4 different, I remember Dürkopp and Reece.

Don't forget Singer! 😊

[espenlaub]

Don't forget Singer! 😊

I've told about the eyelets and buttonholes machines- it's why some of the BW tunics has different styles of the waist hook holes and different button holes. note, that Germans use US machines -Reece

[PMan]

Singer

I've told about the eyelets and buttonholes machines- it's why some of the BW tunics has different styles of the waist hook holes and different button holes. note, that Germans use US machines -Reece

Yes, I understand, Singer had keyhole machines there also.

[Mike Davis]

Whether a machine is powered "automatically" (electric motor) or "by hand" (treadle) has no effect on the consistency of the stitch length.

That is very interesting, thanks for posting. Is it possible by another method or observable characteristic to determine whether an item has been assembled through powered or treadle sewing?

[PMan]

Treadle vs Power

That is very interesting, thanks for posting. Is it possible by another method or observable characteristic to determine whether an item has been assembled through powered or treadle sewing?

How can there be? And even if there was, fakers would use treadle machines as they are easy to find. Look on eBay

[brooksbz]

The Germans garment industry was state-of-art before and during the war. To produce millions of uniforms, the majority of the uniform items were manufactured using powered machines in the factorys and/or local tailor shops. The machines used to make wartime uniform items could made in Germany or outside Germany. Ads for all of these machines and sewing products can be found in vintage commercial or military garmant industry magazines like, for example, "der Schneidermeister" or "Uniform Markt".

A powered machine will likely produced better quality stitches as long as the machine is kept in adjustment. The stitch count (stitches per inch) can be adjusted . Stitches made by modern and vintage powered machines are indistinguishable. Most period German uniforms have sewing mistakes. SS uniform have generally have more mistakes than Heer uniforms.

Treadle sewing shows generally poorer stitch quality and more stitch variation. Poor stitch quality made from a treadle is indistinguishable from a powered machine that is out of adjustment.

The book "Uniform und Soldaten" has a very good overview of the the specific types of machines used to make German uniforms.

IMO stitch quality, by itself, cannot be used to tell an original uniform from a modern uniform. Fakers don't need to use a treadle machine to make a convincing replica. There are other ways to determine if a uniform is period or not.

[Mike Davis]

Let's see what Mr C has to say....

[N.C. Wyeth]

My one-time experience with a good [but not great?] "Faker"

I recall an Italian I once met [who once posted here], that did some really excellent work - using a treadle machine. Admittedly, I am by no means an "expert" on the subject . . . but the stuff I saw him making, was certainly a real eye-opener. That being said, I have come to learn there is so much more to sorting the wheat from the chaff - even if ,at that time, the stuff he showed really had me frozen in my boots.

[Mike Davis]

Stitches made by modern and vintage powered machines are indistinguishable....Treadle sewing shows generally poorer quality and more variation. Poor stitch quality made from a treadle is indistinguishable from a powered machine that is out of adjustment....IMO stitch quality, by itself, cannot be used to tell an original uniform from a modern uniform.

Interesting topic, thanks for weighing in.

[PMan]

Can and Cannot

Interesting topic, thanks for weighing in.

Perhaps you should re-read his corrected post.

[brooksbz]

Yes. I edited and replaced "can" with "cannot" in the last paragraph. It is now consistant with the beginning paragraphs. I apologize for the confusion.

[Mike Davis]

Got it, and I corrected the quote as well. Anyway, the implications are worth bearing in mind.