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Helmut Weitze

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Palm Smock - real or fake - Help wanted

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    #16
    Thanks for your replies

    HI All,

    Thanks for all your replies - Much appreciated.
    I purchased an SS zelt from this seller and was definately an original. I also had no problems with the transaction.
    Several questions:
    1. Do any of you have first had experience with him selling you repros?
    2. Other than having this smock in your hands, what would be features to watch out for if it was a repro. The light line just back from the cuff edge concerns me. To me, it apprears that this is a different type of thread that is used close to the selvage edge that does not take the printing dyes properly, leaving the light line. Have any of you seen this on originals?

    Thanks again and I look forward to hearing from you.
    Mark

    Comment

      #17
      This seller carries a mixture of good and bad items- I've bought from him before. He gets a fair amount of good higher end Imperial militaria, but I suspect this Third Reich stuff is pretty questionable...

      Comment

        #18
        Thanks for your comments

        HI All,

        Thanks for all your replies - Much appreciated.
        I purchased an SS zelt from this seller and was definately an original. I also had no problems with the transaction.
        Several questions:
        1. Do any of you have first had experience with him selling you repros?
        2. Other than having this smock in your hands, what would be features to watch out for if it was a repro. The light line just back from the cuff edge concerns me. To me, it apprears that this is a different type of thread that is used close to the selvage edge that does not take the printing dyes properly, leaving the light line. Have any of you seen this on originals?

        Thanks again and I look forward to hearing from you.
        Mark

        Comment

          #19
          "1. Do any of you have first had experience with him selling you repros?"

          No becuase we spot them and stay away when he sells them. No need to purchase a repro or fake and loose your hard earned $$ or Canadian Dollars to have first hand experience its obvious that he does.

          Thanks,

          Comment

            #20
            Yes, I think he has a mixture of fake and good things...I think more fake than good. You should wait til one appears from a good source I think. This one here isn't super cheap and a couple of $ more will let you sleep good at night.

            "From Czech" is a big problem especially for camo collectors....The czechs kept using german camo after the war. During the war they probably had several companies that produced camo items for the germans...after the war they continued the production for their own troops. I believe that they didn't use the same material (fabric, threads etc.) but the same printing and
            sewing machines. I believe those czech made items to be made from thinner material. Also this smock here looks to me as if it was made from lighter material.
            Palm smocks are relativly early smocks ( produced til 42 I think) and should generaly be made from high quality fabric...Mike's smock looks like a great example to me. I think you should be able to see a difference. Also I don't like the pocket flap unit with the "czech" one.

            The line that you mentioned might be a result of the roller printing process (misprint)....But that deosn't mean that much. They used the same machines after the war so the same or similar misprints appeared. Look at beavers Vol. 3...the palm smock there has lines that looks a bit like the one on the offered smock.

            Hope this helps ...

            Cheers

            Fritz

            Comment

              #21
              Hi,

              I do remember he once did sell what appeared a good SS helmet (SD Q lid) and a good camo cover... But that's about the only good comments I heard of that seller...

              regards,

              Gerd

              Comment

                #22
                Czech camo

                Mark,

                you can always ask me if you want to put up pictures on the forum
                I guess it was a good thing putting it on the forum, but no one really breaks it down ! Only the pocket flaps are disliked, and the seller of course....
                I think this guy also came to the Ciney show, but I didn't notice the smock then...

                Tough call ! But it's a lot of $$$ to take high risks if you ask me

                Cheers

                Werner
                Interested in all E. Reitz Uniformwerke items.

                Comment

                  #23
                  Thanks again

                  Thanks Fritz and all for your great comments. I have a question about post war production of this print. If production of this print stopped in 42-43 I would venture a guess the print rollers would have been reused for other prints or recycled? Given the situation from 43 onward, it is likely that all the remaining stocks of this print would have been used up. Does anyone know for sure this print was produced after the war using original rollers? I could see this with Oak and some of the Plane tree prints since they were producted until the end. Anyway, jsut some thoughts!

                  Werner, I'll email you the rest of the photos and hope to see them on here for all to comment. I know this is a tough call - Take note of the closeup back hole photo. The fabric looks ok to me from what I have seen but you are all correct - better to be safe than sorry and keep the cash -it's a lot to loose.

                  Thanks again,
                  Mark

                  Comment

                    #24
                    Well I think that the ss clothing department simply stoped ordering palm items in 42. So the manufacturers took the palm rollers out off the printing machines and replaced them by rollers for other ss or army patterns. It was no big deal to store the rollers for eventual future orders.

                    I am realtivly sure that even those companies that produced pre war patterns kept the screens for block, lateral and ss vt platan til the end of the war. But I think that these patterns were exclusivly made in germany (including austria at this time).

                    It is correct that oak was produced til 45 (not for smocks) but platan (both, fully hand screened and overprint ) production has been discontinued in 44. I know of a fully handscreened # 3 platan zeltbahn from czech. The pattern is almost, if not 100%, perfect. The choosen materials are not. I have not yet seen the matching #4 but it is most probably around. The quality of this pattern makes it possible that it was made by using original screens.

                    I want to make clear that I can't say for 100% that this smock is bad....But I wouldn't be willing to spend that much money on this particular item...I think it's better to wait for one from a good source to appear.

                    Cheers

                    Fritz

                    Comment

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