Honor rings issued to ss gestapo personnel

[Tommy Scotland]

Can anyone help with a couple of questions....

I was interested to see if anyone knew what date Standartenfuhrer Dr Hans Ulrich Geschke, Head of the Kiel Gestapo, and then the Prague Gestapo, Czechoslovakia, was awarded his Honor ring ???

I established he was in fact awarded an Honor Ring, but could not find any date he was awarded the ring.

Does anyone know any prominent Gestapo officials that received Honor Rings, and when they were awarded them??

Anyone with any info on this would be most appreciated, as trying to see the correlation for members of Gestapo who were SS, that were awarded these rings, that had service with Gestapo

[SiPo]

I personally have only seen one ring with a Gestapo connection.

[Tommy Scotland]

Hello Sipo, Thanks for that reply. I would have thought that many members of the SS would have at some time found their way from the SD into the Gestapo, and as such, have a connection through that avenue.

I may be correct in saying that Heinrich Muller, although having worked his way up in SS, and as chief of the Gestapo, never actually was awarded an Honor Ring, even though of his high ranking SS status rank?

It would be interesting to know who the official was that you found had connection to the Gestapo, and that was awarded an Honor Ring....it would be interesting also know when he was awarded the ring....do you know where I could find that out?

I don't suppose you know about Geschke, and what was date he was awarded his Ring?

I found this, but no info re the actual date of issue of his ring : " Dr Hans-Ulrich Geschke (16.5.1907), SS-Oberführer. He had: Ehrendegen des RF SS, Totenkopfring der SS. He was promoted to SS-Standartenführer (29.10.1941), member NSDAP (nr 945 891), member SS (nr 107 467), Chef Gestapo in Prag (Praha)"


Where would be a source for checking dates on the issue of rings to someone like Geschke ...any ideas?

[Reichskanzler]

I would be very surprised if Heinrich Muller was never awarded an Honor ring!! I will have to look into that and try to find out more about this interesting issue.

[Tommy Scotland]

I have looked at various literature regarding Heinrich Muller, and all I could find were these awards:

Knights Cross of the War Merit Cross with Swords
War Merit Cross 1st Class with Swords
War Merit Cross 2nd Class with Swords
Iron Cross 1st Class with 1939 Clasp
Iron Cross 2nd Class with 1939 Clasp
Bavarian Military Merit Cross 2nd Class with Swords
Golden Party Badge
Sudetenland Medal
Anschluss Medal
Honour Cross of the World War 1914/1918

I could not find any mention anywhere of Honor Ring awarded to him. Maybe someone can clarify if he definitely had been awarded the ring and maybe date of the award on the ring.

[Tommy Scotland]

If anyone should run across any interesting well Know Gestapo officials. in any literature etc, and there is any know mention or reference to a ring being awarded and date, maybe a wee mention on here would be appreciated.

[JoeW]

Tommy, the best source for your research are the Dienstalterliste of the SS. These were published from 1934 till 1944, though 1934 did not show any awards and all wartime issues were senior officers from Obersturmbannfuhrer through Obergruppenfuhrer. From these lists, we see that Heinrich Mueller did receive the TK Ring. And Geschke received his in 1937 (he was not listed as receiving one in 12/1/36 but did have one by 12/1/37. You need to locate a file copy of Geschke's SS personnel file from the archives. It might have a copy of the award document or some other indication of the date of the awarding of the ring.

I see numerous officers of the RSHA having received the TK Ring. Are you excluding all RSHA officers except those of Amt IV? I am confused by the parameters of your research.

You might also check the forum Axishistory.com. It is aimed more at serious research than collectiing and would be of greater benefit to you rather than this forum.

[SiPo]

The ring that I saw was a 1943 type and the recipient was a Gestapo official with the name Patzak.

The ring was sold by Detlev and apparently somebody beat me to it by seconds.

[Tommy Scotland]

Thanks for all the info Joe, I appreciate you taking time to pass that on. Yes, my interest is solely the officials of Amt IV, Gestapo, and not the RSHA in general, that would have received the Honor Ring, so hope that narrows it down.

Thanks for the interesting fact regarding the Axis History.com Forum, which is more concerned with the in-depth research. I suppose I just thought here , on WA, there are so many knowledgeable people, and who come across so much information that is hard to sometime source, and thought I may see if someone may have it to hand.

Especially with senior officials like Geschke and Muller who are well researched by many, then I thought this type of info had done the rounds, hence again why I asked .

Thanks also Sipo, for the info re the Ring that was issued to Patzak, I don't suppose Detlev would know the date, if he is reading this post...?

[JoeW]

Thanks for all the info Joe, I appreciate you taking time to pass that on. Yes, my interest is solely the officials of Amt IV, Gestapo, and not the RSHA in general, that would have received the Honor Ring, so hope that narrows it down.

Oh you have narrowed it down, but I don't believe anyone has pursued such information. At least I don't recall it. You might start the research by compiling a list of those officers you find listed as active in Amt IV of the RSHA of the time period in question.

Thanks for the interesting fact regarding the Axis History.com Forum, which is more concerned with the in-depth research. I suppose I just thought here , on WA, there are so many knowledgeable people, and who come across so much information that is hard to sometime source, and thought I may see if someone may have it to hand.

WAF does have knowledgeable collectors, but the info you are seeking is very specialized in my opinion. And based on my experience over a long period of time, I think you will have more success in seeking help on that forum.

[Tommy Scotland]

I have taken your advice JoeW, and put a post on the Axis History Forum to see what reply I will get there.

Thanks for all your good advice, it has made good sense and very helpful.

I can see that the Axis Forum that it certainly has a different type of forum request and inputs from it's member which is more geared towards researching people in various places at the period, and also their career paths and specifics to that end. That in itself also brings a good balance to the hobby, for those that want a bit more depth about their subjects, or their memoribilia etc....

Thanks for all your inputs folks, you have been very kind to give me your time, advice, and direction, much appreciated.

[SiPo]

Patzak ring issued 20/4/43.

[Tommy Scotland]

Thanks SIPO, for taking time post that, it's much appreciated.....