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    #16
    Originally posted by daggers View Post
    I would not touch this SS-Wewelsbürg (;-))) ) fork with fire tongs. Obviously somebody not german speaking did mix something.

    How long you ever do studying an item there goes nothing over understanding the german language and specialities of the german scrips.
    Without that any comment is a wishful thinking.

    Greetings, daggers.
    Hallelujah - another expert chiming in...

    By the way: the shown pieces are not only original but quite valuable - some pieces offered by HH not too long ago were sold for big money.

    Maybe that wakes up jealousy in some people here.

    Comment

      #17
      not meant to insult you,,10 years , 2004 . You missed the biggest influx of expertly made fakes and fantasies by over 10 years!

      I'm not relying on dog tag collectors. I used to collect tags from the late 70s to the late 90s. I have seen in hand the Wewel tags,,it is the same exact stamp in size and everything. There isa topic on them some where, maybe the German Military Fundforum[?]

      I am a true believer! , would love to believe in them,,so show me or direct me where this period documentation/info is as I'd love to read it and be wrong..

      Thor, nothing you wrote has to do with them being authentic,,so they sold in auction for big money,,big deal. Provenance?,documentation?, photo? advert? anything would do for me..

      Comment

        #18
        As previous mentioned, I find the umlaut a bit strange.

        Comment

          #19
          Originally posted by Gaspare View Post
          Thor, nothing you wrote has to do with them being authentic,,so they sold in auction for big money,,big deal. Provenance?,documentation?, photo? advert? anything would do for me..
          What is your conspiracy theory about them being fake?

          Please share.

          Comment

            #20
            Thor,, I am always for the collector.. And, love to see cool stuff and exotica. I don't like to see guys waste their hard earned money on bull****.

            I am simply offering a experience I've had.. Years ago this stamp was making the rounds on dog tags, cigg cases, silverware. Back then knowing some of the guys peddling the items and the impossibility of dog tags having the stamp on them our conclusions were the stamp was a fantasy. Now I don't have to prove a fugazy.. The person offering the piece as authentic has the burden[?] to show the proof, the documentation, the provenance, something!

            A few guys saying wow a great original,,the items selling in a auction or from a dealer, or even ground dug is not a provenance/proof of authenticity..

            Again,I don't mind being mistaken, I would love to find out the pieces are authentic but where's the beef?

            Comment

              #21
              Originally posted by Gaspare View Post
              Thor,, I am always for the collector.. And, love to see cool stuff and exotica. I don't like to see guys waste their hard earned money on bull****.

              I am simply offering a experience I've had.. Years ago this stamp was making the rounds on dog tags, cigg cases, silverware. Back then knowing some of the guys peddling the items and the impossibility of dog tags having the stamp on them our conclusions were the stamp was a fantasy. Now I don't have to prove a fugazy.. The person offering the piece as authentic has the burden[?] to show the proof, the documentation, the provenance, something!

              A few guys saying wow a great original,,the items selling in a auction or from a dealer, or even ground dug is not a provenance/proof of authenticity..

              Again,I don't mind being mistaken, I would love to find out the pieces are authentic but where's the beef?
              Of course I understand your uncertainty. Sometimes it is really hard to find out everything what is original and what is fantasy. Especially with pieces that are not documented as such in the clothing regulations for uniforms or the production evidence by the manufacturer for Medal or daggers. When pieces were produced only for a small circle, the recherche is often much more difficult.
              Here we rely on evidence such as pictures or original photographs or on receipts or proof of delivery by the manufacturer. Entscheident at the Wewelsburg equipment is for example also evidence which were found during the search of the castle by the allied troops. Again, existing facilities have been documented and even requisitioned. From the overall picture of the finds and documents it is to understand what is original and what is not.
              As a final word, I would add: Pieces that are recognized by the majority of collectors and experts as original, can be only declared as such.

              Best Andi

              Comment

                #22
                @Thorsten_B and Vet44, you both have a german location under your nickname so you should at least understand german so -please- , as you both are obvious experts concerning this cuttlery, how do you explain the "ü" in "SS-Wewelsbürg" on the fork stamp to me?
                Thank you in advance, greetings, daggers.

                Comment

                  #23
                  The Ü is remarkable. Is there any reasonable explanation?

                  Comment

                    #24
                    It is Sütterlin script!

                    Originally posted by daggers View Post
                    @Thorsten_B and Vet44, you both have a german location under your nickname so you should at least understand german so -please- , as you both are obvious experts concerning this cuttlery, how do you explain the "ü" in "SS-Wewelsbürg" on the fork stamp to me?
                    Thank you in advance, greetings, daggers.
                    Of course I have:

                    The SS was heavily interested in anything of typical german - better: germanic and pre-christian - descent, tradition and style and within that desire always searching and creating their self-defined own style which at the end of the road was founding a new religion which ought to be based on the results of this search.

                    Therefore the different cultural and artistic enterprises, foundations and institutions like Allach, Gahr, DHW, DAW, Ahnenerbe, Lebensborn, Amt München and Amt Wewelsburg within the SS-Hauptamt "Persönlicher Stab RF-SS" to name the major and most important ones.

                    As one result we have the idea to let Wewelsburg castle look more like being executed in a medieval style and outward appearance combined with a more germanic and well-fortified look - in addition to that all the necessary daily "accessoires" were outcarried in ancient traditional way by searching for and employing hand-selected german firms and craftsmen still or again able and willing to work "old-fashioned".

                    The results are SS cultural items, buildings, interieur - and as said a new religion with it´s intended center:

                    Wewelsburg.


                    To finally answer your question: The letters on these SS cutlery pieces outcarried by WMF (Württembergische Metall-Warenfabrik) in Geislingen an der Steige represent traditional Sütterlin, the so-called "deutsche Schrift" = german script.

                    For those not being in the know regarding this script - here you go:

                    http://www.suetterlinschrift.de/Lese/Sutterlin0.htm

                    And in english language:

                    http://www.suetterlinschrift.de/Englisch/Sutterlin.htm

                    Note how the "u" is being written!

                    Comment

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Thorsten B. View Post
                      Of course I have:

                      The SS was heavily interested in anything of typical german - better: germanic and pre-christian - descent, tradition and style and within that desire always searching and creating their self-defined own style which at the end of the road was founding a new religion which ought to be based on the results of this search.

                      Therefore the different cultural and artistic enterprises, foundations and institutions like Allach, Gahr, DHW, DAW, Ahnenerbe, Lebensborn, Amt München and Amt Wewelsburg within the SS-Hauptamt "Persönlicher Stab RF-SS" to name the major and most important ones.

                      As one result we have the idea to let Wewelsburg castle look more like being executed in a medieval style and outward appearance combined with a more germanic and well-fortified look - in addition to that all the necessary daily "accessoires" were outcarried in ancient traditional way by searching for and employing hand-selected german firms and craftsmen still or again able and willing to work "old-fashioned".

                      The results are SS cultural items, buildings, interieur - and as said a new religion with it´s intended center:

                      Wewelsburg.


                      To finally answer your question: The letters on these SS cutlery pieces outcarried by WMF (Württembergische Metall-Warenfabrik) in Geislingen an der Steige represent traditional Sütterlin, the so-called "deutsche Schrift" = german script.

                      For those not being in the know regarding this script - here you go:

                      http://www.suetterlinschrift.de/Lese/Sutterlin0.htm

                      And in english language:

                      http://www.suetterlinschrift.de/Englisch/Sutterlin.htm

                      Note how the "u" is being written!
                      I think I have to thank Thorsten on behalf of all involved interested people here for his detairte educational work !!

                      Thank you Thorsten

                      Comment

                        #26
                        Oh yes, I knew from the beginning that you would fight back to this undefendable position. The script of the "SS-Wewelsbürg" fork IS NOT -what you do pretend- written in Süterlin (Kurent) but in GOTHIC script where no slash about an "u" is written!
                        Oh my god, you even know less than I thought you would....
                        Greetings, daggers.

                        Comment

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Vet44 View Post
                          I think I have to thank Thorsten on behalf of all involved interested people here for his detairte educational work !!

                          Thank you Thorsten
                          It is not educational what you two do here but de-educational. Even for those not familiar with Sütterlin/Gothic it is much easy to spot GOTHIC versus Sütterlin here, simply look e.g. at the "e" in the "Wewelsbürg" script and in the link provided.
                          Greetings, daggers.

                          Comment

                            #28
                            http://www.identifont.com/similar?24O


                            There are many styles of writing German, fraktur being one of them. I attach a link to fraktur script showing the umlauts over the letter u.

                            Bob Hritz
                            Last edited by Bob Hritz; 11-28-2014, 11:12 AM.
                            In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

                            Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can muffle the sound.

                            Comment

                              #29
                              Originally posted by daggers View Post
                              Oh yes, I knew from the beginning that you would fight back to this undefendable position. The script of the "SS-Wewelsbürg" fork IS NOT -what you do pretend- written in Süterlin (Kurent) but in GOTHIC script where no slash about an "u" is written!
                              Oh my god, you even know less than I thought you would....
                              Greetings, daggers.
                              Who are you to question these fine original pieces?

                              Comment

                                #30
                                These are rare but also culturally popular originals. About the value of the pieces are not to speak. I do not understand why you generally recognized Contemporary Real Parts Cutlery not will accept. I think that it makes no sense to further discuss.

                                Best Andi

                                Comment

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