Is this a recognized maker of SS Visors?

[craig a. thomas jr]

Need input concerning makers of Visors for the SS. I know Erstklassig is a Heer maker, but did they produce for the SS?



Close up

[RoyA]

I believe that's a Clemens Wagner logo.

R

[Karl S.]

logo

According to Gary Wilkins book, its a Georg Kurz logo .

[craig a. thomas jr]

Any mention as to whether or not they produced for the Waffen SS?

Thanks,
Craig

[RoyA]

Craig,

Try posting this in the Headgear forum.

Roy

[craig a. thomas jr]

No input from any of the SS headgear experts?

[Donald Abenheim]

Erstklassig

While I do not want to dispute Mr. Wilkins, whose work is quite excellent, I believe this is a high end Clemens Wagner cap; Clemens Wagner was a major contractor for black SS caps for all ranks. I do also believe that they made grey caps with this logo, as well. Finally, I also believe that Clemens Wagner Erstklassig logos are also widely employed on fakes, but if one is asute in one's empirical craft, then you can tell the difference between authentic and fake ones. I believe that cap distributors or little retail firms for uniforms also carried Wagner caps. Clemens Wagner, as Wilkins points out, was a major cap factory on an mechanized basis, but they also seem to have had a better brand of product, i.e. Extramuetzen of various qualities. This logo looks authentic to me. Postscriptum: notice the cursive Buchstaben 'CW' in the logo.

[craig a. thomas jr]

Thank you for your insight! As I don't have access to that publication.

[billbert]

craig ,maybe you should show more of the cap for a better feel from fellow collectors on this cap............

[craig a. thomas jr]

Here you go...

Here are some photos.... Eagle is a M1/72, Totenkopf is 254/42.





*** Took some better pictures ***

[SScollector]

Craig,

Could you please post some close-up pictures of those insignia?

Thanks! Chris

[craig a. thomas jr]

Visor Insignia

These are scans to confirm insignia are 100% so that they wouldn't have to be removed from visor again (Just in case I wanted to sell visor), and so that pins didn't need to be re-bent.

Totenkopf
RZM 254/42 - Deschler & Sohn





Eagle
RZM M1/72 – Zimmerman





Regards, Craig

[SScollector]

Thanks Craig!

I hate to give you bad news, but those insignia are typical cast reproductions.

Best, Chris

[craig a. thomas jr]

Cast Reproductions?

Chris,

Thank you for your opinion. You are the first of many to have seen these calling these reproductions . These have been posted in this, and other forums previously with thumbs up and as well as offers to purchase. The M1/72 eagle is the same as Gary Wood's that is posted in this forum except mine has the prongs (http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...3&page=4&pp=15 reply #54). I have never seen a 254/42 pictured in any forum. Also to my knowledge and research these RZM numbers are also not to be known reproduction numbers...your insight is a first as to these numbers being reproduced in the 9 years I have been following this forum and other forums. May I ask where your information comes from , how you determinded them to be "cast", or would you be kind enough to show insignia of these RZM numbers from your collection?

Craig

[Robin Lumsden]

Craig.

I'm sorry, but I don't like the insignia either. The pins on the skull are certainly not the type usually used by Deschler, and the eagle also looks wrong to me. I can't fault the cap, but so many original caps have had fake badges added over the years.........and the cap cords replaced as well.