SS TK cap button marked M5/8

[Langemark]

Hello,

Prior to starting this thread I checked the earlier ones but didn’t manage to find ‘the decisive answer’ concerning the M 5/8 marked SS-TK buttons.

Although the Totenkopf cap button shown below is identical to that one illustrated on page 109 of A. Hayes’ “SS uniforms, insignia and accoutrements”, I would like to submit it here in order to be sure about its originality.

- The button is non-magnetic.
- The front part is made of some dark yellow metal alloy.
- The whole button is painted feldgrau but with a slight brown tint.
- The recess of the nose is pebbled but the eyes are not.
- Diameter is about 20 mm.

Many thanks for replying,

Mark

[Langemark]

Close-up on the reverse showing the RZM M5/8 marking. The ring is in white metal.

[Gary Wood]

Mark,
This type of button is a fake although some say it is original and has been discussed before although the majority of the discussions are on the later types which are cast, the very early examples of this type are 3 piece construction and stamped (example below), quality is very good on these early types.
cheers,
Gary

[Langemark]

Many thanks for your help Gary. I wanted to be sure before purchasing the whole cap with button.

Continuing with the M5/8 marked Totenkopf button, do you mean that this ‘early 3 piece construction fake’ is of better quality than the later fakes ?
Does it also mean that the example pictures in A. Hayes’ “SS uniforms, insignia and accoutrements” is also a fake ?
Do original M5/8 TK cap buttons exist and in what way are they different ?
Would be very interesting to learn more about it.

Best,
Mark

[Robin Lumsden]

Many thanks for your help Gary. I wanted to be sure before purchasing the whole cap with button.

Continuing with the M5/8 marked Totenkopf button, do you mean that this ‘early 3 piece construction fake’ is of better quality than the later fakes ?
Does it also mean that the example pictures in A. Hayes’ “SS uniforms, insignia and accoutrements” is also a fake ?
Do original M5/8 TK cap buttons exist and in what way are they different ?
Would be very interesting to learn more about it.

Best,
Mark

Mark.
I was caught out with one of these buttons as well. Mine was in nickel and was totally unmarked. It was 3-piece construction and very well made.
It's now pretty well agreed by everyone that any button with this particular style of skull is a fake. That includes the one in the Hayes book - and other books as well.

[Langemark]

Thank you Robin,

If everyone agrees that these M5/8 marked TK buttons are fake, we also have to agree that they are utmost convincing and of very high quality for a fake. I also noticed that in the “Military Advisor” dated spring 1995, identical buttons are pictures as being original.

So my question remains : did original M5/8 Totenkopf cap buttons exist and in what way are they different ? Could anyone post some close-ups of original TK buttons ?

Best,
Mark

[Robin Lumsden]

Thank you Robin,

If everyone agrees that these M5/8 marked TK buttons are fake, we also have to agree that they are utmost convincing and of very high quality for a fake. I also noticed that in the “Military Advisor” dated spring 1995, identical buttons are pictures as being original.

So my question remains : did original M5/8 Totenkopf cap buttons exist and in what way are they different ? Could anyone post some close-ups of original TK buttons ?

Best,
Mark

Mark.
You're right about the Military Advisor article........but they had to acknowledge in a later issue that they got the photos and captions mixed up first time around. As far as I'm aware, there are no known original buttons with this mark. All originals look like mini versions of the SS cap skull. I'd post pictures, but I'm unable to do so here.

[darryl-P]

Mark,

I agree that the M5/8 Totenkopf button you posted is a repro. Here is a collage I put together of the five known original examples of this style of button. These images are courtesy of Bob Hritz who posted them in a thread on the GD.com forum a few years ago. I simply put them all into one concise image.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

[Arran]

How about this one? I believe its an original one also...nickel front, steel back, copper shank and mardked "RZM" and "57"...

[Arran]

And the back...

How about this one? I believe its an original one also...nickel front, steel back, copper shank and mardked "RZM" and "57"...

[SScollector]

"RZM 57" is also a correct marking for these skull buttons,
(in addition to the ones posted about from Bob Hritz's collection).
The pics are small, but that one looks like a winner to me.

Best, Chris

[John T]

RZM 63 AND RZM 57 are interestingly enough also correct codes on early SS EM buckles

[SJP]

M5/8

The correction in Military Advisor (summer 95) still maintained that a M5/8 button did exist.They showed 2 in the spring issue which were copies of the M5/8.IMO the one Gary shows is original.I also have one like that was veteran aquirred.I also have a well worn copy I picked up as original in the in early 80s.I will post pictures of both in the near future.Cheers Steve.

The first one is origanal IMO,vet aquirred,Second one a copy

[Langemark]

Many thanks to All for your replies and a special thank to Darryl for posting several different types of TK buttons from B. Hritz’s collection. Very instructive and constructive !

Below is a Totenkopf button I found a long time ago in a box of miscellaneous insignia. Due to the lack of detail I strongly believed it was a copy … but from what I read here it possibly could be original ? It is marked RZM – SS – 57. Any thoughts ?


Mark<O</O

[Langemark]

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