Interesting uniform Group Heer FG/SS-Polizei

[NickG]

Continuing the strange collar plausible explanation, we know that on occasion such odd collar shapes were period used,
especially on foreign tailored garments such as this Parisian made LW generals tunic, which MikeH showed some years ago
(with matching breeches) + a period image with reversed collar tabs in wear!

[NickG]

but here is a plausible explanation for my collar / lapel shape; this is exactly how a tailor would make a Dutch NSB uniform with open collar,
so perhaps that is where the design pattern came (lapel shape) from. Again the collar was not post war modified the seller states...
Thought I would share that as some food for thought (for the naysayers).I will post better images once the uniform arrives!

[NickG]

Didnt butchek auctioned a similar tunic short time ago?

Yes sort of similar....also an open neck custom one with dark collar with silver edge piping even with solid provenance
and beautiful visors in the lot etc...! Note Heer (WH) infantry boards!

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...niforms&page=2

[Robert H]

Provenance has much meanings, solid proof even with provenance is very very rare.

[NickG]

Provenance has much meanings, solid proof even with provenance is very very rare.

Yes that is true...Anything out of the ordinary can often be explained (like foreign tailoring) but you will need the back up, the provenance...(tailor label, period photo etc..)
and
you do have to be careful with green faced collar open neck tunics, as this is a trait for the post war West German BGS (BundesGrenzSchutz) uniforms...
The ghost of a West German BGS eagle shield gets covered with a TR campaign shield with large backing material and it now sits to low on the sleeve...)
2 red flags...

My uniform is of course an entirely different animal all together, foreign tailored in 1941!
Compare!


.

[NickG]

Well I have an update...Provenance!! The soldier and his unit have been identified by the Deutsche Dienststelle !
See scan! It also states that he survived the war, which is probably why the uniform was partially modified for post war use...
I agree now! (the green cuff facings have already been removed to make it look more military again...)

The daughter had said that he was with the police (she meant Feldgendarmerie obviously) which explains the orange waffen farbe on the
FG schirmmutze...also Dutch made in matching smooth gabardine wool...which I didn't get now split up and sold by the dealer...
(at least I got his pants... ) and the rank per the dienststelle was Unteroffizier...which makes sense as the cap is not an officers model...
but the uniform quality wise is...even has dagger suspension + slit arrangements!

This Feldgendarm was posted at 2 different Ortskommandanturen in Holland as it shows.
Every Ortskommandantur had a Feldgendarmerie Trupp...So it makes perfect sense! There are also entries of him being hospitalized twice in Holland...(no doubt health issues, not combat). He spent at least 1940-1941 time frame in Holland according to the Dienststelle info, which is when this uniform was tailor made for him (dated Nov.8, 1941). It all comes together perfectly so we have a definate match! Spiffy uniforms would have been worn by lower ranking NCO's stationed at an Orskommandantur.

Now no other info is listed after 1941....??? So no records??? or no changes he stayed there until the war ended???
but according to the dealer, the daughter explained that her dad was later transferred to the SS (either Polizei Battalionen or 4th Polizei Division...) The latter had an ausbildungs-ersatz abteilung in Amersfoort...coincidence?
Maybe this Gendarm was transferred or requested a transfer to the Polizei Div because of his Police experience?
Thoughts?

The Dienststelle records don't indicate that unfortunately..so incomplete? Nothing shown after 1941???
or nothing shown because simply there were no changes (unlikely almost 4 years??!)
Thoughts?

[Kurt]

Nick,

first of all congrats on finding your man ... you must be truly exited!!!

It doesn't get much better than this. If the WaST doesn't have any more info, that wouldn't worry me at all. There was a war going on....

Best Kurt

[NickG]

Nick,

first of all congrats on finding your man ... you must be truly exited!!!

It doesn't get much better than this. If the WaST doesn't have any more info, that wouldn't worry me at all. There was a war going on....

Best Kurt

Thanks Kurt!
Yeah maybe records got lost...another member told me that to get the complete war records you have to be a relative (and pay) for it...
At least I now have an ID (and for free btw!)

Here info on both OK stations:

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...ur/OK877-R.htm


http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...ur/OK875-R.htm

It was quite a revelation that he was only an Unteroffizier at the time this uniform was custom made! This lowly Unteroffizier had expensive taste as he had all his uniform items made locally, all in Dutch officers grade gabardine. This Amersfoort tailor "Maison Jordi" btw was the official Royal court appointed personal tailor of Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, high quality, which explains the George Keppler SS generals uniform coming from that source,
(also shown in this thread).
Here the 1938 newspaper clipping that recognizes the tailor as "hofleverancier" (Royal Court supplier), which is was an honor and granted in celebration of their 20th year in business it reads.

[NickG]

So I guess I should restore it to Heeres Feldgendarmerie !
Too bad his FG Schirmmutze in the same Dutch cloth got split off and sold...
Trying to track it down!!!

[NickG]

The FG cap again.
Does anybody know its current where abouts? Was sold to somebody in Germany....
who does not know its history, probably does not even know its Dutch made (like the uniform + breeches I have)
Not hard to miss in this Dutch gabardine...Would love to reunite the group!

[LuckyStrike23]

Well I have an update...Provenance!! The soldier and his unit have been identified by the Deutsche Dienststelle !
See scan! It also states that he survived the war, which is probably why the uniform was partially modified for post war use...
I agree now! (the green cuff facings have already been removed to make it look more military again...)

The daughter had said that he was with the police (she meant Feldgendarmerie obviously) which explains the orange waffen farbe on the
FG schirmmutze...also Dutch made in matching smooth gabardine wool...which I didn't get now split up and sold by the dealer...
(at least I got his pants... ) and the rank per the dienststelle was Unteroffizier...which makes sense as the cap is not an officers model...
but the uniform quality wise is...even has dagger suspension + slit arrangements!

This Feldgendarm was posted at 2 different Ortskommandanturen in Holland as it shows.
Every Ortskommandantur had a Feldgendarmerie Trupp...So it makes perfect sense! There are also entries of him being hospitalized twice in Holland...(no doubt health issues, not combat). He spent at least 1940-1941 time frame in Holland according to the Dienststelle info, which is when this uniform was tailor made for him (dated Nov.8, 1941). It all comes together perfectly so we have a definate match! Spiffy uniforms would have been worn by lower ranking NCO's stationed at an Orskommandantur.

Now no other info is listed after 1941....??? So no records??? or no changes he stayed there until the war ended???
but according to the dealer, the daughter explained that her dad was later transferred to the SS (either Polizei Battalionen or 4th Polizei Division...) The latter had an ausbildungs-ersatz abteilung in Amersfoort...coincidence?
Maybe this Gendarm was transferred or requested a transfer to the Polizei Div because of his Police experience?
Thoughts?

The Dienststelle records don't indicate that unfortunately..so incomplete? Nothing shown after 1941???
or nothing shown because simply there were no changes (unlikely almost 4 years??!)
Thoughts?

What did you do to get this letter so fast? When I (or another German) ask them about my ancestors I have to wait ap. 1 year. When I ask about a person I am not related to I will get NO informations.

[jürgen]

Confirm !!!
Intressting nick !
Tell us

[NickG]

No clue why I received this info within 1 month...just plain luck I guess or somebody new there worked my case...
not knowing the proper protocol...
(I am not a relative of course...I was actually skeptical about even getting a reply...but I did and super fast service!
Still wondering why the records only reflect 1940-1942...perhaps because that's what I asked for...(based on uniform tailoring date)...
the remaining service history is not shown unless there were no changes between 1942-1945, but I doubt that!

Btw the dealer replied back to me today and he promised to chase down the current owner of the FG schirmmutze,
so there is a chance I can get the group reunited...a shame that it was split up in the first place...

[HAF]

No clue why I received this info within 1 month...just plain luck I guess or somebody new there worked my case...
not knowing the proper protocol...
(I am not a relative of course...I was actually skeptical about even getting a reply...but I did and super fast service!
Still wondering why the records only reflect 1940-1942...perhaps because that's what I asked for...(based on uniform tailoring date)...
the remaining service history is not shown unless there were no changes between 1942-1945, but I doubt that!

Btw the dealer replied back to me today and he promised to chase down the current owner of the FG schirmmutze,
so there is a chance I can get the group reunited...a shame that it was split up in the first place...

as someone told you ,if you are not related you will not get more informations,i wonder that you has get any at all nice uniform you have there

[NickG]

Thanks! Baby steps restoration...
I realise this is the SS section and the uniform was posted here because according to the daughter he served in the SS (after the Police...she meant Heeres Feldgendarmerie) and the original thought was it being a (stripped) SS Polizei uniform...
but I'm going with the 1941-1942 theme as per the Dieststelle service records which revealed much more and match the uniform dating...
Here some updates: