Interesting uniform Group Heer FG/SS-Polizei

[NickG]

These items surfaced in a house clearing in Germany 5 months ago.
I was able to secure the uniform + matching breeches, but not the visor.
Both will be in my hands in about 2 weeks but here's a preview...

The uniform is named and the cap+uniform+visor were all custom made, tailored in Holland using matching Dutch ribbed cloth.

According to the seller, the daughter of the vet explained that her dad served in the Police and later transferred to the Waffen SS (Polizei).

She stated her dad went from Police to SS (police)....not mentioning Heer Feldgendarmerie...but the visor proves he was a Military MP.
Probably started his career in the civilian police got mobilized and served as hilfs-feldgendarmerie in a military unit (Heer) which was common during the Blitzkrieg and later got fully absorbed in Heer FG service, (probably not his choice). His Heer schirmmutze with orange piping survived and is proof of his MP service...

This soldier later transferred to the 4 Polizei Division (SS) but as an unterfuhrer...(NCO)
I assumed fuhrer (Officer) as the uniform (no breast eagle ghost and stripped of any rank insignia) has a dagger slit....and comes with leather reenforced riding breeches officer style... but senior NCO's also had fancy tailored uniforms as well with such attributes ... but I initially thought that it was officers kit...However the name is not in the SS-fuhrerliste...so it's an NCO...(with final posting in the the Polizei Div. )

The tunic was tailored in Amersfoort and the SS polizei had an ersatz und ausbildungs unit in that town...

Abordnung zur Polizei-Division (später SS Polizei-Division) - 20.06 .40-? Artillerie Ersatz ... April 41-Verlegung nach Holland,
Amersfoort
-SS-Polizei-Infanterie-Geschütz-Ersatz-Kompanie 16.7.41
-SS-Polizei-Artillerie-Ersatz-Abteilung 16.7.41
As we know the SS-Polizei wore strange mixes in the 1941 period...

I was initially turned off because of the possible civilian Trachten/Forst conversion look...and not knowing the history of the piece and the connection with the Heer MP visor...

but now I am pretty sure it was war time tailored (or re-tailored like this when open neck tunics came "im schwang"! ) There are no breast eagle ghosts so it was tailored for SS Polizei service with combrat bottle green collar and cuff facings instead of regular SchuPo dark brown another indicator for 4th Div Combat Police.

[NickG]

This is his Dutch made Schirmmutze from Heer Feldgendarmerie (before transfering to SS-Polizei Div.) Both the uniform and cap have been denazified... I did not get the cap...but wanted to keep the uniform and breeches together (for SS-Polizei impression...Cap less important)
and a rear view of his Dutch made breeches in similar ribbed Dutch gabardine cloth...

[NickG]

Breeches close up! Both showing Dutch tailoring and breeches with typical German leather reenforcing..

[NickG]

more...

[NickG]

back and inside...(early tailoring November 1941...) The Polizei Division in this period had technically not yet obtained 100% Waffen SS status, so a period when strange uniform mixes were worn...Note Police style cuffs for example...
It's been established by the daughter that the soldier went from Police (FG) to SS-Polizei.

The kit is high end officers quality but he's not listed on the SS-Fuhrerliste... so remained an Unterfuhrer...NCO.
The riding breeches can be explained perhaps by the fact that the SS-Polizei had an artillery school in Amersfoort
and the unit was horse drawn...
Thoughts? It will be hard to restore as I do not know this soldiers rank...

[B. N. Singer]

Nice; and FYI

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...keppler&page=3

B. N. Singer

[stonemint]

Nick--
the visor is for sale on German Ebay right now:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/2-WK-WH-Schir...item58b16d4d4e

[NickG]

Nice; and FYI

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...keppler&page=3

B. N. Singer

Interesting that another (SSrelated) uniform serfaced from this Dutch tailor...Had an SS customer base apparently!

[NickG]

Nick--
the visor is for sale on German Ebay right now:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/2-WK-WH-Schir...item58b16d4d4e

Yeah I know...I wanted it in the group initially but the cap is from his earlier miltary police service prior to transferring to the Polizei Division, so its not a crucial part of the group but still nice. Would have liked to grab it also...but unfortunately the seller wants way too much for it...
All in the same Dutch cloth (slight hue difference)

[NickG]

Has anybody seen or have in their collection a uniform with a similar collar configuration?
Here 2 period pictures with non-standard collars...

[NickG]

I am glad that SS-Obergruppenfuhrer George Keppler's uniform was added to this thread as it provided another clue for me....!

Note the letter "T" handwritten by the tailor on the right top corner of the tag! That threw me off!
Most likely this tailor was a family owned company and the initial was the family member who made it...T.Jordi,
meaning there were other Jordi members as well involved with tailoring...and I thought my uniform owner's initial was T ...
(so both tags only show the customers last name, no rank, no intials...) and written in the exact same handwriting,
but 13 months apart ...(October 1940 - November 1941)

This does not narrow down the search of my tunic's owner, as there is no initial as we now know!
(thanks to SS-Obergruppenfuhrer George Keppler's uniform tag),
instead it widens the possibilities, a good thing as I was not having any luck with T.Plumeyer...
Note also the orange trim in the General's uniform and my uniform's dagger slit trim!

[Rogerd]

Indeed very nice and interesting group!! Will be a nice restored tunic! Only question is the rank...

[paul.j]

jacket

War time modified? With a button hole in the collar? For his flowers?
Shoulder seams sewn in with no provision for epaulettes.
I doubt it, he probably had it retailored post war to wear as a club jacket, such as a shooting club, that is what it looks like with those alterations.

[TrondK]

Didnt butchek auctioned a similar tunic short time ago?

[NickG]

War time modified? With a button hole in the collar? For his flowers?
Shoulder seams sewn in with no provision for epaulettes.
I doubt it, he probably had it retailored post war to wear as a club jacket, such as a shooting club, that is what it looks like with those alterations.

I agree with you Paul that the collar is odd and I almost past on getting the tunic because of the same concerns you state, as mentioned in my first post...
but when it was revealed that he was SS Polizei (ties in with cuff facings Polizei style) and it came with the breeches and his cap (from former Heer FG service).
I had a much more open mind... but I will inspect it more closely when it comes in...The vet obviously decided to keep all of his uniform components, not just the tunic
(for hunt/shoot/club activities...?) so therefor unmolested after all? Seller of course claimed its untouched original WW2...

Regarding the collar shape and button hole, it's standard with KM open neck tunics with button hole (always!) and certainly also worn by other branches as well,
(OT collar shape differences shown in period photos below) not an automatic red flag...certainly on occasion tailored like this, but I know what your saying.
The price for the set was such that is was worth the gamble to still move on it! A 525euro gamble for the set...(tunic+breeches), well worth it I feel!
He originally tried to get 400E just for the tunic...

Collar comparison: (stripped SS-Polizei - SD - OT and KM)