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    #1

    Totenkopfring

    Hi friends,

    I would study totenkopftrings before buying them in order to prevent to be cheated….

    I did not find many threads on waf, can you please tell me where I can get information about them?

    I know about Don Boyle book, is it completed? Are there other good books?

    Thanks in advance
    Last edited by Andrea90; 05-27-2014, 02:34 PM.
    Tags: None
    #2
    I would suggest posting clear close up pictures of any future purhaces on this forum or German Daggers.com (sub forum, The Honor Ring Forum).
    Both have extremely knowledgeable members. Gaspare Bua (on oth forums) is a top notch professional that can help you.
    I would also do a search on these forums for past threads as they have some outstanding threads on what to look for and what to avoid.
    Good luck and post the pics!
    Don's book is ok but it does not provide you with the clear/close pics needed to identifiy good from bad. Ron

    Comment

      #3
      Originally posted by tanker View Post
      I would suggest posting clear close up pictures of any future purhaces on this forum or German Daggers.com (sub forum, The Honor Ring Forum).
      Both have extremely knowledgeable members. Gaspare Bua (on oth forums) is a top notch professional that can help you.
      I would also do a search on these forums for past threads as they have some outstanding threads on what to look for and what to avoid.
      Good luck and post the pics!
      Don's book is ok but it does not provide you with the clear/close pics needed to identifiy good from bad. Ron
      Thanks for your fast reply!

      Post pictures on forum is correct, but if have to buy it during a show I prefer to have a own knowledge on them…

      Do you collect totenkopfring?

      Are early models much desirable than 1940s models?

      Comment

        #4
        You are welcome. I can't say I collect (only have one), but I think they are the best piece of history.
        Study the pics and be careful who you purchase from.
        If I had a choice, I prefer the early ones (even though they are all collectable).
        Without running the risk of being accused of bashing, Craig Gottlieb wrote a book to sell/promote his rings. CG along with a couple of others did a disservice to the collecting community a few years ago trying to push some high end fakes in the market and got caught. it hurt the market for some collectors, but for the die hard Totenkopfring collectors, they still know what to look for and buy.
        Like everything else, there will be folks trying to sell you a fake to get your hard earned money.
        I know that doesn't break it down is a list to look for but study the threads and ask question if they don't anwer your questions. Ron

        Comment

          #5
          Hi,

          if you are really into the Totenkopfring, and you want to buy some, i strongly advice you to try to find the book by Don Boyle who is the main expert on them.



          The Don Boyle book is not common, you will probably have to pay around 50 to 100 usd.

          The book of Craig is unfortunately promoting some ugly fakes (the one of the cover is a fake one if i'm right...). You can find this additional book for less than 20 usd.



          If you want to buy an original one, one member of the WAF is having one for sale (contact me for more details) with a Don Boyle certificate.

          See You

          Vince

          Comment

            #6
            Thanks agin Ron for extra info!

            Do you know if exist kinds of totenkopfrings that are not textbook with doubts on their authenticity?

            I sometime see in description of sellers "custom made", but I think they where all custom made for their owners, is it correct?


            All rings with Don Boyle COA are 100% authentic? Can I buy them without fear? Because I remember about Niemann COAs few years ago….
            Last edited by Andrea90; 05-27-2014, 03:23 PM.

            Comment

              #7
              Another option is:

              Klaus D. Patzwall: Der SS-Totenkopfring.
              Attached Files

              Comment

                #8
                Someone with more knowledge will have to chime in on that.
                For me, if the authenticity was in doubt or it did not exibit the traits/flaws documented, then I would certainly pass.
                The only "custom made" would apply only to the name/date/size.
                Anything else would be against the SS order and who dared to counter that!
                Ron
                Originally posted by Andrea90 View Post
                Thanks agin Ron for extra info!

                Do you know if exist kinds of totenkopfrings that are not textbook with doubts on their authenticity?

                I sometime see in description of sellers "custom made", but I think they where all custom made for their owners, is it correct?

                Comment

                  #9
                  Hi,

                  yes Thorsten, you are right, this additional book is also interesting.

                  In my opinion i will never trust the "unique variant/homemade" thing, most of the time this is used by fakers to milk some bogus items with a "wonderful story".
                  Sometimes this is better to pay a bit more for a known confirmed original than to put money on a doubtful item.

                  See You

                  Vince

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Very sound advice. Ron


                    Originally posted by FrenchVolunteer View Post
                    Hi,

                    yes Thorsten, you are right, this additional book is also interesting.

                    In my opinion i will never trust the "unique variant/homemade" thing, most of the time this is used by fakers to milk some bogus items with a "wonderful story".
                    Sometimes this is better to pay a bit more for a known confirmed original than to put money on a doubtful item.

                    See You

                    Vince

                    Comment

                      #11
                      The Patzwall book is in German, so you'll have to translate it, or scan and use and OCR, etc. or maybe an added incentive to pick up German! As for the rings, it's always best to get one with Don Boyle's signature. There're better and better fakes coming to the market but if you study them well enough like the die flaws and the engraving, you should be able to sieve the chaff out.

                      As for price, it all depends on the condition and attribution of the ring. Those that can be tracked with the DAL list or via NARA can fetch higher sums as the record tells the ring bearer's story. Apart from rings, there're other things to look forward to!

                      Mil

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Originally posted by FrenchVolunteer View Post
                        Hi,

                        yes Thorsten, you are right, this additional book is also interesting.

                        In my opinion i will never trust the "unique variant/homemade" thing, most of the time this is used by fakers to milk some bogus items with a "wonderful story".
                        Sometimes this is better to pay a bit more for a known confirmed original than to put money on a doubtful item.

                        See You

                        Vince

                        I'm with you I collect medals with same criteria…

                        But I've seen in many descriptions of well know sellers the words "custom made" maybe it is referred about size…

                        Do you know if there are also some kinds of not textbook rings on the market?

                        I often turn away from not textbook or doubtful items...

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Military View Post
                          The Patzwall book is in German, so you'll have to translate it, or scan and use and OCR, etc. or maybe an added incentive to pick up German! As for the rings, it's always best to get one with Don Boyle's signature. There're better and better fakes coming to the market but if you study them well enough like the die flaws and the engraving, you should be able to sieve the chaff out.

                          As for price, it all depends on the condition and attribution of the ring. Those that can be tracked with the DAL list or via NARA can fetch higher sums as the record tells the ring bearer's story. Apart from rings, there're other things to look forward to!

                          Mil
                          A german 22 years girl would be better to pick up german than the book…

                          As for prices, what is approximately the value for a nice (good but not mint condition) ring without history of owner? And what about for one in same condition with history and reference?

                          Comment

                            #14
                            The actual market and price situation is very well reflected in the auction results of HH - there were quite a number of decent original Ehrenringe to be had!

                            Comment

                              #15
                              The bubble burst for these rings a while back and now is a good time to pick these. The market seems to have moved on to GPBs, BOs and CBs!

                              Mil

                              Comment

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