SS uniform grouping for review

[Fritz]

Is this large black line always an indication of "verstorben" deceased? Thanks.

I don't think it's a black line, probably green or red, I think all cards of that nature would have that - no matter if the man died or lived.

You can read the "verstorben" entry in the lower part of the card.

Cheers

[Dr. Strangelove]

Mark

He was never an Untersturmführer, KIA before his class commission date. I have the class roster.

An inaccurate title card from a Personalakte folder is no "confirm" commissioned.

Exactly, thank you Mark. I can't wait to see your Work on Totenkopf!

[N.C. Wyeth]

Address to the Fan-Club please!

Nice to see something entertain the troops again . . . and even if one of the articles troubles some . . . at least the rest were rather impressive!

P.S. Mark - I Love you too, man!

[Dr. Strangelove]

Awesome!

N.C., you got me, that made me laugh!

Yeah, I love Research and Mark is sharp. From deciphering Sütterlin, bizarre acronyms and just plain bad handwriting Mark is one of the best. Research is one of my favorite aspects of the Hobby.

I won' t argue that those Hats in the Group were straight no matter who owned them.

[PBR]

Just a question, did the SS-VT use black collars?

[Dr. Strangelove]

nope

Not to my knowledge, looks like a deep Forestry green, if you know what I mean.

[ss3]

Regarding the wearing of the Ehrenwinkel by pre-1933 HJ members on later Heer / SS uniforms, this was permitted and photographic evidence is out there. I have spoken to some of those who were such people and they confirmed verbally that they were all permitted to do this.

Look at the image of Gerhard Dilling in Dietrich's Warriors - he wears the Ehrenwinkel on his LAH uniform but did not join the SS until after 1940. I was intrigued as some of you are, so I asked him directly. He held the Ehrenwinkel and the Golden HJ Badeg for joining the HJ pre-1933.

Hope this helps?

[Fritz]

Regarding the wearing of the Ehrenwinkel by pre-1933 HJ members on later Heer / SS uniforms, this was permitted and photographic evidence is out there. I have spoken to some of those who were such people and they confirmed verbally that they were all permitted to do this.

Look at the image of Gerhard Dilling in Dietrich's Warriors - he wears the Ehrenwinkel on his LAH uniform but did not join the SS until after 1940. I was intrigued as some of you are, so I asked him directly. He held the Ehrenwinkel and the Golden HJ Badeg for joining the HJ pre-1933.

Hope this helps?

Of course it helps! Do you know when he was born? There must have been a specific date for granting the Winkel and a year could make a difference.

If anyone can, please help me on this: I think you could not join the HJ before you turned 14, our man here was born in dec 1920, that means he turned 14 in dec 34...This would mean he became a member of the HJ not before the "Machtergreifung"...?

Again, my information is that the HJ-personal was not qualified for the Winkel. And that again too: That info my well be wrong.


Cheers

[PBR]

Thanks Doc.

[doomtown]

Fritz- Is it possible that "Deutsches Jungvolk" members would have also been eligible for an Ehrenwinkel? I'm no expert on the HJ, but it's always seemed like the line between the HJ and DJ was very thin, and the DJ was formed in 1928.

[codytrcollector]

Shocking results in regards to the SS-VT style tunic. I think it is safe to say now it most certainly isn't apart of the grouping.

[derek]

To clarify who was eligible to wear the "Winkels fuer alte Kaempfer" here is the official SS list of groups or associations SS members could have belonged to prior to 30th January 1933:
SA
HJ and DJ
ND-Deutscher Studentenbund
NS-Arbeitsdienst
NS-Aertzebund
NS-Juristenbund
NS-Lehrerbund
NS-Kreigsopserverforgung
NS-Betriebszellenorganisation
NS-Hago
Stahlhelm, Bund der Frontsoldaten

[butschekantiques]

Hello everyone,

I hope I can be of help in this case since I´m the only one here who had these tunics in hands.
It is sometimes hard to judge items by pictures. No question.

You might want to note that all of his tunis are exactly the same size. Please see pictures.


The liner and cloth of the SS-VT cut tunic is exactly the same as the straight trousers.
The buttons of the straight trousers are exactly the same as the ones of his breeches. Both trousers have the same waist size of course.

The collar of this tunic is green, not black.

One funny side note which could be of help in this case:
One veteran I knew kept on wearing his Leutnant tunic on his birthdays. Postwar!
He ordered it at the tailor but war was slightly „too short“ as he kept saying to receive his promised promotion.
His mother picked it up since he was in the field. He did not have a hands one before returning from his POW time. Anyway…

Something similar might have happened to Gerke. His breeches, trousers and the SS-VT cut tunic are clearly unworn.
One period time document mentions „Untersturmführer“ in this files so something was going on for sure. Maybe he was killed in action before the promotion reached him but he certainly expected it. Was he not allowed to buy his officers uniform at the tailor in advance? Maybe he liked the early SS-VT cut and order it like this?

I can´t see any problem with this tunic.
Hope this helps.

Kind regards
Klaus


<p>

[John Pic]

Klaus, If he was an officer candidate he was most certainly allowed to wear these uniforms as a Standartenoberjunker many did wear officer tailored uniforms only with their NCO rank insignias and piping around the collar tabs. These are very very nice and original uniforms and it doesn't matter that he was not promoted he was entitled to wear them as a candidate....had they retained that candidate insignias and a Braunschweig or Tolz cufftitle they would be much more rare than a standard Untersturmfuhrer's tunic. Bravo on the great find.

[N.C. Wyeth]

Klaus, If he was an officer candidate he was most certainly allowed to wear these uniforms as a Standartenoberjunker many did wear officer tailored uniforms only with their NCO rank insignias and piping around the collar tabs. These are very very nice and original uniforms and it doesn't matter that he was not promoted he was entitled to wear them as a candidate....had they retained that candidate insignias and a Braunschweig or Tolz cufftitle they would be much more rare than a standard Untersturmfuhrer's tunic. Bravo on the great find.

Hello JP - I agree it is a great find, no doubt . . . and the argument for Standartenoberjunker would make sense - if the shoulderboards for such followed that thought. But, perhaps, I am overlooking something - as these boards do not appear correct for an NCO - at least one that is, about to be promoted, and adhering to regulations. Could it be, the promotion was happening at the same time of death . . . and maybe the Officer boards were installed pre-emptively . . . and it may be better to argue he could have been a "renegade" NCO, unexpectedly meeting his coup d'état - right before he picked up his newly-tailored tunic? I suppose we will never know . . . and for all this theorizing, I'm just bummed my present financial status barred me from getting in on the WSS Officer cap.