SS uniform grouping for review

[Fritz]

Thanks for the patience, everyone!

Here it is. Unfortunately we still don´t know an exact promotion date.

You can see they crossed out "Standobj" and wrote "Ustuf" next to it.

Thanks, Klaus. Handwriting and ink look the same as in the "verstorben" line. I would suspect he was promoted to Untersturmführer post mortem.

Cheers

[jimt]

questions

Thanks, Klaus. Handwriting and ink look the same as in the "verstorben" line. I would suspect he was promoted to Untersturmführer post mortem.

Cheers

I would still wonder why the Officers visor hats if he got this rank posthumously? but that might explain the low quality/issue type EM wool tunics ? but the piped tunic/ black collar ??? In all my years of collecting I have never seen a black collar on a tunic ??? For me something just is not right ?? All mint ?

[Fritz]

Jim:

As for the caps, a Standartenoberjunker would actually wear an officer's cap.

Why the black one is an officer's variant too? Well I have no idea.

When did they stop wearing the allgemeine uniforms in the VT / WSS? Quite early I think? One could assume he was an officer in the Allgemeine SS before he became one in the W-SS....For my taste he would be too young for that though.

The VT officer's tunic doesn't fit the current picture. According to the document posted he was an Uscha. in late 42.

Moore has him listed as Standartenoberjunker in late 43....Did Gerke plan to wear a VT officer's tunic in 44?


Cheers

[codytrcollector]

"Did Gerke plan to wear a VT officer's tunic in 44?"
This was my assumption, especially considering the condition and transfer. I doubt he ever wore it. The black cloth on the collar doesn't bother me one bit, the tunic is beautiful. What I don't understand is the black SS visor, and the officers cord. Was he an officer that young, maybe it's as simply as he broke regulation? I guess one can never be sure this was all owned by one man. Regardless, all the items separately are very nice.
Promotion date would be very helpful.

[Fritz]

What I have no explanation for either is how a guy that was born in 1920 was "awarded" the Ehrenwinkel für Alte Kämpfer...?

[Gran Sasso]

What I have no explanation for either is how a guy that was born in 1920 was "awarded" the Ehrenwinkel für Alte Kämpfer...?

Ernst Barkmann (born 1919) also had one:

He told me he wore it because he was a war-volounter, and / or because he was in the HJ before 1933.

[John Pic]

The Ehrenwinkle could be worn by former party members perhaps his service in the HJ qualified him.

[John Pic]

Not John is not problem as it will cost 100.000 the sense is: this is not for me. Fortunately, and you know it better, there is another market and other price if you have right sources.
Thanks to the real market I had the opportunity to sell and arrive at some pieces of famous dealer. Of course I will not buy an item like m41 at 20.000 neither at 10.000 as recently seen in the new speculation of a rare but not so rare tunic.
Moreover when it was used also by heer with slight differences.

Agree..

[Fritz]

To the best of my knowledge being a volunteer did not count and neither did the HJ time if so all ss men of a similar age would have been granted one since all VT men were volunteers and most of them were in the HJ...? I think what counted was membership in the so called "Kampfverbände der NSDAP" (SA, SS, NSKK) or party membership.

As far as the ss was concerned it was either granted up to ss membership number 50.000 or NSDAP membership number 300.000.


Patrick:

Do you know if he was ever authorized to wear it? Or did he wear it because he wanted to? Do we have other examples of young waffen ss men wearing the Winkel? Preferably not those that were KC holders?

I think we can agree that an ss man born in late 1920 would not usualy be awarded the Winkel...Keeping the above mentioned regulation in mind. Of course regulations were not always followed.

Cheers

[doomtown]

Fritz, you asked about photos of younger men wearing the Ehrenwinkel, here are a few from men from the Nord rgt. that a friend was kind enough to dig up for me from a Kriegsberichter archive. I thought that I read in Angolia that HJ membership before 1933 was considered eligible for an Ehrenwinkel but I could be wrong.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Forschung

Doomtown, thank for the great pics!

The Research on Gerke, no matter how you slice it, shows this Guy died a Standartenoberjuncker and was never Commissioned an Officer. And that is straight form Mark Yerger. That plus John Moore's info tells me what I need to know.

Mark took the time out from his day to look at it even though he is working hard to finish his next volume on Totenkopf, which is going to be packed full of never seen before fotos and tons of great information.

[Mark C. Yerger]

It says he was a SS-Untersturmführer in one of the period time documents which I have on file.

He was never an Untersturmführer, KIA before his class commission date. I have the class roster.

An inaccurate title card from a Personalakte folder is no "confirm" commissioned.

[Fritz]

doomtown:

Thanks, what I meant were pictures of people that we know when they were born (like Barkmann). I should have been more precise, sorry about that.

Cheers

[Fritz]

As for that Winkel: I couldn't rule out that early HJ members received the winkel. However, from what my understanding is it was only granted to members of the Kampfverbände der NSDAP, to the best knowledge the HJ was not a Kampfverband.

However, I am not sure myself.

Cheers

[Glowlight]

Thanks, Klaus. Handwriting and ink look the same as in the "verstorben" line. I would suspect he was promoted to Untersturmführer post mortem.

Cheers

Is this large black line always an indication of "verstorben" deceased? Thanks.