Hi,
An informative post for the fellow collectors of the « Charlemagne ».
I hope it will help people to be not tricked with such crapy fantasy ridiculous fakes…
I’m only talking here of major historical inaccuracies, but everyone will be able to laugh on the “homemade” documents with too many stamps and signatures (remember : from February 22 up to middle March 1945 the “Charlemagne” had to fight for its life. And many of the Frenchs lost their life in the fields of Pomerania.
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1) Since summer 2012 those ugly fantasy “field orders” were sold on EBay.de by an unscrupulous seller (beck-german-rarity, and maybe later under Beckcorner10 ?). The guy was proposing or so-called "field orders" or printed paper stamps of the "Division Charlemagne" [sic].
A few "field orders" are known to have been sold for a few dozen of Euros each.
I have the email of the original seller, and some of those "field orders" on scans. Beck-german-rarity seemed to have been kicked out of Ebay. I have more of those “field orders” in my archives.
(Another one from my archives... Ugly as others)
NOTA : strangely www.beck-militaria.de (owner died in early 2013) still have a fake "Division Charlemagne" [sic] stamp (that may have been used to print the paper stamps), but i was unable to connect the Ebay account and the militaria website. More strangely, this website sold an original “Charlemagne” artefact in 2011…
NOTA 2 : back in 2012, I even contacted some of the unfortunate (and idiot) buyers, telling them that they were badly burned and that they needed to act to get their money back.
2) various items were shown to M. Robert Soulat, translator and secretary at the HQ of the "Charlemagne" from late 1944 up to May 1945. He was used to write such orders and field orders. He laughed out loud.
3) i will only point out the EVIDENCES on the various FANTASY field orders.
I'm not calling them even FAKES. They are fantasy items, originated from a fertile/sick mind of someone who (badly) rode the Saint-Loup book which was the only/major book on the Frenchs available in german (“Legion der Aufrechten”) at the time. Interesting fact, it is well known that Saint-Loup (Marc Augier) had a lot of inaccuracies in his books, changing names and making errors on dates of events.
Anyone who is STILL claiming that those craps are real is 1) a liar 2) a village idiot.
Choose what you prefer to be.
The next 5 “field orders” are currently proposed by an English “collector” (who was badly burned when he bought them) to various french people (moderators, writers on french messageboards for example), trying to get rid of those “hot potatoes”.
The guy clearly knows that they are bogus, and he keep trying to say that he 1) studied them for a long time 2) don’t know if they are “good or bad”.
What a jerk. See below that he even didn’t read BASIC source.
Again, if you want to “study” the “Charlemagne” (and the Sturmbrigade), PLEASE buy the last edition of “For Europe”, by Robert Forbes (2010).
This will cost you less than 15 Euros, shipping included on Amazon.
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ITEM SS#1
EPIC FAIL #1 : Stamp
FAKE/FANTASY. No division-rank stamp of the "Charlemagne" existed.
Your item is then fake. Period.
This is confirmed by known documents from German Archives and of course by M. Robert Soulat himself. The brigade "Charlemagne" began a virtual division only a few days before the first convoy departed to Pomerania. The stamps were not changed.
EPIC FAIL #2 : Date
On March 6, Emile Moneuse was... DEAD SINCE March 5 !
Emile Moneuse was killed on March 5 when the 2nd battalion of the march regiment (Bassompierre) started its fight to evacuate the Körlin area.
NOTA : the real signature of Moneuse is available in various french archives (WWI and WWII files of Moneuse).
EPIC FAIL #3 : De Bourmont
De Bourmont was MIA on March 5, during the fights of the reserve regiment.
NOTA : the russian words may be faked, but it can be easily checked by russian speaking friends if needed.
NOTA 2 : if the "Moneuse/Monneuse" error can be easily understood, the "De Boumant" error is dubious to say the least.
NOTA 3 : Why the hell are two french SS officers communicating on the field in german when they can communicate in French ? Even more when the “Charlemagne” was under major stress ?
ITEM SS#2
EPIC FAIL #1 : Stamp
FAKE/FANTASY.
See ITEM #1.
EPIC FAIL #2 : Date
Neustettin was taken by the Soviet Army on February 28, 1945.
Nothing more to say !
EPIC FAIL #3 : Krukenberg
Krukenberg was “MIA” since his escape from Elsenau on the evening of February 25, and was able to meet the remnants of the “Charlemagne” in Belgard in early March 1945. This order can’t have existed as Krukenberg was unreachable. Puaud was still in full command of the “Charlemagne”.
Krukenberg NEVER decided anything, it was higher german commandment who decided the retreat of the “Charlemagne” from Hammerstein to Neustettin then to Köslin (finally Belgard-Körlin as Köslin was already nearly taken by the Soviet Army).
NOTA : again the Moneuse signature is probably a very bad guessed fake.
ITEM SS#3
EPIC FAIL #1 : Stamp
FAKE/FANTASY.
See ITEM #1.
EPIC FAIL #2 : Date
On March 1, the “Charlemagne” was already in the south-east of Belgard (since February 28) ! The “Charlemagne” started his retreat from Neustettin on February 27 morning.
EPIC FAIL #3 : Krukenberg
Krukenberg was “MIA” since his escape from Elsenau on the evening of February 25, and was able to meet the remnants of the “Charlemagne” in Belgard in early March 1945. This order can’t have existed as Krukenberg was unreachable.
It was Puaud who was commanding the unit, and who decided to leave a sturm battalion of Frenchs to defend Neustettin for a dozen of hours.
Also Krukenberg went to the Belgard area by a completely different road than the remnants of the “Charlemagne” (Hammerstein-Neustettin-Bärwalde-Bad Polzin-Belgard-Körlin). Krukenberg arrived from Köslin to Körlin then Belgard.
NOTA : again the Moneuse signature is probably a very bad guessed fake.
NOTA 2 : Soviet Army attacked from the north and the south Neustettin…
ITEM SS#4
EPIC FAIL #1 : Stamp
FAKE/FANTASY.
See ITEM #1.
EPIC FAIL #2 : Date
On March 1, the “Charlemagne” was already in the south-east of Belgard (since February 28) ! See ITEM #3
NOTA : again the Moneuse signature is probably a very bad guessed fake.
NOTA 2 : Soviet Army attacked from the north and the south Neustettin…
ITEM SS#5
EPIC FAIL #1 : Stamp
FAKE/FANTASY.
See ITEM #1.
EPIC FAIL #2 : Date
On March 5, De Bourmont was MIA during the heavy fights of the reserve regiment in the south-west of Belgard. Körlin was taken by the Soviet Army in March 5 (it seemed that reports are conflictual), without any fight after the Bassompierre battalion tried to escape to Kolberg and to the east.
NOTA : no “Sturmführer Le Soms” is known to exist (yet) on the current officers’ listing of the “Charlemagne”… Sturmführer is not an SS rank used in the “Charlemagne”…
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See You
Vince
An informative post for the fellow collectors of the « Charlemagne ».
I hope it will help people to be not tricked with such crapy fantasy ridiculous fakes…
I’m only talking here of major historical inaccuracies, but everyone will be able to laugh on the “homemade” documents with too many stamps and signatures (remember : from February 22 up to middle March 1945 the “Charlemagne” had to fight for its life. And many of the Frenchs lost their life in the fields of Pomerania.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) Since summer 2012 those ugly fantasy “field orders” were sold on EBay.de by an unscrupulous seller (beck-german-rarity, and maybe later under Beckcorner10 ?). The guy was proposing or so-called "field orders" or printed paper stamps of the "Division Charlemagne" [sic].
A few "field orders" are known to have been sold for a few dozen of Euros each.
I have the email of the original seller, and some of those "field orders" on scans. Beck-german-rarity seemed to have been kicked out of Ebay. I have more of those “field orders” in my archives.
(Another one from my archives... Ugly as others)
NOTA : strangely www.beck-militaria.de (owner died in early 2013) still have a fake "Division Charlemagne" [sic] stamp (that may have been used to print the paper stamps), but i was unable to connect the Ebay account and the militaria website. More strangely, this website sold an original “Charlemagne” artefact in 2011…
NOTA 2 : back in 2012, I even contacted some of the unfortunate (and idiot) buyers, telling them that they were badly burned and that they needed to act to get their money back.
2) various items were shown to M. Robert Soulat, translator and secretary at the HQ of the "Charlemagne" from late 1944 up to May 1945. He was used to write such orders and field orders. He laughed out loud.
3) i will only point out the EVIDENCES on the various FANTASY field orders.
I'm not calling them even FAKES. They are fantasy items, originated from a fertile/sick mind of someone who (badly) rode the Saint-Loup book which was the only/major book on the Frenchs available in german (“Legion der Aufrechten”) at the time. Interesting fact, it is well known that Saint-Loup (Marc Augier) had a lot of inaccuracies in his books, changing names and making errors on dates of events.
Anyone who is STILL claiming that those craps are real is 1) a liar 2) a village idiot.
Choose what you prefer to be.
The next 5 “field orders” are currently proposed by an English “collector” (who was badly burned when he bought them) to various french people (moderators, writers on french messageboards for example), trying to get rid of those “hot potatoes”.
The guy clearly knows that they are bogus, and he keep trying to say that he 1) studied them for a long time 2) don’t know if they are “good or bad”.
What a jerk. See below that he even didn’t read BASIC source.
Again, if you want to “study” the “Charlemagne” (and the Sturmbrigade), PLEASE buy the last edition of “For Europe”, by Robert Forbes (2010).
This will cost you less than 15 Euros, shipping included on Amazon.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ITEM SS#1
EPIC FAIL #1 : Stamp
FAKE/FANTASY. No division-rank stamp of the "Charlemagne" existed.
Your item is then fake. Period.
This is confirmed by known documents from German Archives and of course by M. Robert Soulat himself. The brigade "Charlemagne" began a virtual division only a few days before the first convoy departed to Pomerania. The stamps were not changed.
EPIC FAIL #2 : Date
On March 6, Emile Moneuse was... DEAD SINCE March 5 !
Emile Moneuse was killed on March 5 when the 2nd battalion of the march regiment (Bassompierre) started its fight to evacuate the Körlin area.
NOTA : the real signature of Moneuse is available in various french archives (WWI and WWII files of Moneuse).
EPIC FAIL #3 : De Bourmont
De Bourmont was MIA on March 5, during the fights of the reserve regiment.
NOTA : the russian words may be faked, but it can be easily checked by russian speaking friends if needed.
NOTA 2 : if the "Moneuse/Monneuse" error can be easily understood, the "De Boumant" error is dubious to say the least.
NOTA 3 : Why the hell are two french SS officers communicating on the field in german when they can communicate in French ? Even more when the “Charlemagne” was under major stress ?
ITEM SS#2
EPIC FAIL #1 : Stamp
FAKE/FANTASY.
See ITEM #1.
EPIC FAIL #2 : Date
Neustettin was taken by the Soviet Army on February 28, 1945.
Nothing more to say !
EPIC FAIL #3 : Krukenberg
Krukenberg was “MIA” since his escape from Elsenau on the evening of February 25, and was able to meet the remnants of the “Charlemagne” in Belgard in early March 1945. This order can’t have existed as Krukenberg was unreachable. Puaud was still in full command of the “Charlemagne”.
Krukenberg NEVER decided anything, it was higher german commandment who decided the retreat of the “Charlemagne” from Hammerstein to Neustettin then to Köslin (finally Belgard-Körlin as Köslin was already nearly taken by the Soviet Army).
NOTA : again the Moneuse signature is probably a very bad guessed fake.
ITEM SS#3
EPIC FAIL #1 : Stamp
FAKE/FANTASY.
See ITEM #1.
EPIC FAIL #2 : Date
On March 1, the “Charlemagne” was already in the south-east of Belgard (since February 28) ! The “Charlemagne” started his retreat from Neustettin on February 27 morning.
EPIC FAIL #3 : Krukenberg
Krukenberg was “MIA” since his escape from Elsenau on the evening of February 25, and was able to meet the remnants of the “Charlemagne” in Belgard in early March 1945. This order can’t have existed as Krukenberg was unreachable.
It was Puaud who was commanding the unit, and who decided to leave a sturm battalion of Frenchs to defend Neustettin for a dozen of hours.
Also Krukenberg went to the Belgard area by a completely different road than the remnants of the “Charlemagne” (Hammerstein-Neustettin-Bärwalde-Bad Polzin-Belgard-Körlin). Krukenberg arrived from Köslin to Körlin then Belgard.
NOTA : again the Moneuse signature is probably a very bad guessed fake.
NOTA 2 : Soviet Army attacked from the north and the south Neustettin…
ITEM SS#4
EPIC FAIL #1 : Stamp
FAKE/FANTASY.
See ITEM #1.
EPIC FAIL #2 : Date
On March 1, the “Charlemagne” was already in the south-east of Belgard (since February 28) ! See ITEM #3
NOTA : again the Moneuse signature is probably a very bad guessed fake.
NOTA 2 : Soviet Army attacked from the north and the south Neustettin…
ITEM SS#5
EPIC FAIL #1 : Stamp
FAKE/FANTASY.
See ITEM #1.
EPIC FAIL #2 : Date
On March 5, De Bourmont was MIA during the heavy fights of the reserve regiment in the south-west of Belgard. Körlin was taken by the Soviet Army in March 5 (it seemed that reports are conflictual), without any fight after the Bassompierre battalion tried to escape to Kolberg and to the east.
NOTA : no “Sturmführer Le Soms” is known to exist (yet) on the current officers’ listing of the “Charlemagne”… Sturmführer is not an SS rank used in the “Charlemagne”…
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See You
Vince
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