bullion eagle

[Rick C]

Can’t hurt to ask the pros where is seems that there are nuances to SS stuff beyond the usual tell tales that I take note of such the use of multiple wire types in the embroidery, the presence (or lack thereof) of unterlagen or general tidiness of the work.

Anything jump out?

Thanx, Rick

[Rick C]

The littler pointer is showing what I think is unterlagen...

[Ian Hulley]

I believe this is a round-shouldered fake.

Wait for John for confirmation obviously.

Cheers, Ian.

[Rick C]

Ian, I searched "round-shouldered fake" in the SS forum to no avail. Can you enlighten me? RC

[brooksbz]

An eagle of this type came up a few weeks ago. There should be a recent post. You may have to broaden your search on the WAF to find it.

Don't get too frustrated the criteria for a real eagle keeps changing. A few years ago anything with an unterlagen was considered real, now that that is considered not so true.

Only types known to certain collectors are considered real, variations are usually rejected out of hand on the WAF only because it is better to be 100% correct, no one wants to be ever wrong. It is this way on the high end stuff here.

You have to figure out your criteria and make the case for items of interest.

[JLS1963]

High quality reproduction eagle IMO. Best, JLS

[Ian Hulley]

Only types known to certain collectors are considered real, variations are usually rejected out of hand on the WAF only because it is better to be 100% correct, no one wants to be ever wrong. It is this way on the high end stuff here.

You seem really anti-WAF ?

We all have an opinion, but as I said you really need to have the experts view and on these bullion eagles they are (in my view) John, Felix and RobertH.

Ian

[Rick C]

I must admit these first comments are a buzz kill, but, I'm interested in whatever details folks can or are willing to share.

What's tough, for a guy who doesn't collect a bunch of SS stuff, is references (as mentioned before) of "round shouldered fakes" and then not being able to find references thereof. Would love a link or two if someone has the time.

I hope, eventually, the guys will pipe in but, in the interim, I'll welcome any/all comments.

[John Pic]

This is not a "round shoulder" fake of the 1980s....although it does have round shoulders and is fake this is a newer fake made in Pakistan. It is not a variant there are many original varient's accepted this is just a modern fake.


If you think that anything with an unterlagen is considered original you have missed out on many posts that point out that Carl Sieder of Wien made fake eagle's using unterlagen. This is why it is important to learn as much as possible. I have stated many times that unterlagen is not a sole criteria. It helps because modern fakes sometimes are directly embroidered to the cloth but older fakes often have unterlagen. Also some novice collectors confuse unterlagen with tan threads under the bullion .

Trader's had fakes made of fakes since he himself could not determine they were...this appears to be just that a fake of a fake.

Here is a fake made using a scan of an original. I had him make this one for me to see if it really could be done. This was many years ago now and I wanted to learn as much as possible about what could be faked and how.

[101combatvet]

Also, not all round shoulders are fake.

[John Pic]

Also, not all round shoulders are fake.

Show me a real one then

[brooksbz]

This is why it is important to learn as much as possible. .

My point of Post 5. As info because available the opinions change. Not anti-WAF. The past eagle threads are interesting reading. No one wants to be wrong.

[101combatvet]

Show me a real one then

I posted it before. You may find it in my old threads.

[brooksbz]

Hi John,

Not to steer away from this thread, but does the fake in post 9 have an unterlagen?

[John Pic]

Hi John,

Not to steer away from this thread, but does the fake in post 9 have an unterlagen?

No it does not, it is directly embroidered to the cloth.