1933 schwarz sshr photo

[von shock]

i was going through some of my old files and found one of the pics of the 1933 christmas eve franz xavier schwarz ring i used to own. i was the owner prior to gottleib bending me over for it. i do have more photos of it on cd somewhere but havent come across them yet. i was looking at old posts and questions concerning the ring and how it got this way. i will post the complete story in a follow up. just wanted to share it with everyone. some of you may remember me from the old gdc. i drifted off forums after the all battles that ensued towards the end. i just want to collect and continue to learn. so hope you enjoy the photo and story.thanks
creed

[von shock]

the story of this ring begins in ww2 germany near a pow camp. the G.I who aquired it was a man named doc davies. he was an army doctor and officer. all i know is he got the ring near a pow camp.maybe regansburg who knows. he returned home after the war to continue practicing as a doctor and obtained his very own office. he was our family doctor for many many years and a very close friend of the family. he actualy delivered several of my sisters at our home. my mother was a nurse and at some point became his personal nurse rn practioner and worked for him. one day he came to the office very pissed off and handed the ring to my mother and asked if she wanted it. she accepted the ring as a friendly gesture and didnt understand why he was so mad. doc had taken the ring to his friend who was a jeweler and asked him to repair the ring because the skull was loose or comming off. well,the jeweler though he would surprise doc by removing the skull,drilling a setting and soldering a bezel on,and installing a diamond into it. side note: the diamond is a g-h color 35 or so pt vvs stone. so it was a very good stone. when doc went to get the ring he wasnt very happy. so he felt the ring was ruined and couldnt care less about it at that point. now,my mother takes the ring and puts it in a box in her belongings and forgets about it for 20-30 years or so. up until thew ring comes up in conversation between her and i. she discribes the ring but not in great detail. i ask that if it evers pops up could i have it. she says if she finds it its mine. 2 years or so go by and out of the blue she produces the ring. i knew it was an honor ring due to seeing one im one of my ss books. i am troubled though because it doesnt match any inscriptions i can find on the internet at the time. so,i contact don boyle and speek to him over the phone. as soon as i describe the way the inscription is written don became excited because at that time it wasnt well known aboth the roman numerals except by people who had seen original 33 rings. don made me a trade offer of a rare piece he had but i wasnt in the market to sell or trade at the time. i joined the gdc not long after and began to learn as much as possible about sshr's. i had a few offers over time and didnt want to sell. one was for around 12,000.00 to which i wish i had taken now. then a time came when hardship fell on my family to which i had to make a very hard decision. i made it known on the gdc that i was considering selling the ring. not long after i received a call from gottleib telling me he is interested. i told him what i was offered prior to that and he basicly told me it was only worth 5000.00 and thats only if he had it restored. i told him i would accept trade and cash. he wanted to trade me an army dagger or luft dagger and no cash. well, i accepted somewhere in the 2500.00 range and licked my wounds and to this day regtret it. then low and behold he sells the ring severl years later for 12-13,000.00. i also have emails that i have saved concerning other parts of the sale agreement that were never met but i didnt have a contract. but then again i didnt think i needed one. i was raised by the fact a man is only as good as his word and i still try to live by that mantra. this is the true story of the 1933 franz xavier schwarz ring as it pertains to my custody of it.
thanks
creed

[Gaspare]

Hi Creed! , hope all is well... Yes a wonderful HR!,,for me one of the best there is! And yes,,you should have kept it,,but as I know as much as anyone sometimes tough times demands tough actions..

I liked the ring with the diamond in it best. Wish it didn't get 'restored'

IF you get a chance I'm sure the new guys on the HR forum would love to hear from you and see it also.. A healthy safe holiday to you and your family.... ,G.

[Daniel.S]

A liitle offtopic, sry for that

But how can you "restore" such a ring..? and why?

[von shock]

hey g,thanks for the kind words. hope all is well with you and yours. i actualy had intended on doing the same thing craig did. the problem is that when i asked for 33 ring photos with examples of a 33 skull craig couldnt find the photos. i do alot of fine hand carving and intricut work from time to time as a hobby. so making a worn skull wouldnt have been a big deal. i just wanted the skull to be a correct representation. to this day i still have yet to see photos of any surviving 33 rings. ie. the stolen wolf ring or any of the others. i beleive only 3 or 4 are known to survive.the diamond was put in around 1965-70. so i was way post war. i have a 3rd generation spanish jeweler that could have dopne the band repair and resolder without issue. i guess it boils down to personal prefference on repair vs restoration or just leaving a piece alone. there are definitly instances where more damage can be done by attempting the repair/resto. thanks
creed

[TonyS]

Geez - another tale of Gottlieb screwing someone.......its like a never ending story........

Not every day we see an Honor Ring for an SS-Oberstgruppenführer - thanks for the photo and the story.

[Serge M.]

A very early and exceedingly rare personality SSTK ring with great veteran provenance. Doesn't get any better. Sorry to hear you got hosed out of it.
It's a unregulated 'business', in this case it's -Seller Beware-.

>>i told him i would accept trade and cash. he wanted to trade me an army dagger or luft dagger and no cash. well, i accepted somewhere in the 2500.00 range and licked my wounds and to this day regtret it. then low and behold he sells the ring severl years later for 12-13,000.00. <<

Thank You for sharing this rather sad tale on a historically important artifact.


-wagner-

[james m]

Hey Creed:
Good to hear from you after all these years. Yes we all liked that ring very much.
I hope everything is going better for you!
It's been 5 years since I last attended the MAX. Do you still attend?
BTW: Do you still have that "special" pet?
Regards
Jim

[von shock]

thank you all.
the reason for me bringing it all to light is not only to help others from getting the same treatment, but to give the new owner the true story and actual provenance of the ring as this story and credation to me was omitted from craigs book. another failed agreement on craigs part. i also wanted to share the ring with collectors who had never seen it or known of it. i have more photos of the ring inside and out with good detail. i have to find the cd they are on. there is another detail to the ring most do not know. if you look at the photo. you can see a line on top and bottom edging the oak leaves. when don looked at it he beleived the jeweler may have done this also. but who knows,maybe schwarz had it done once the ring was almost worn smooth. also the s in the slb was re-touched after the setting was put in. as soon as i find the pics i will share them with all.
thanks
creed

[von shock]

hey jim,
yep sure do. he is in the basement now. the wife finaly had enough of him in the living room.lol . i missed this years max but went last year and sold some quist luft m40 helmets to a fellow i run into from time to time. pretty busy here in pgh with kids and new business. not to mention 3 daughters to keep me jumping.
thanks
creed

[von shock]

found another. i would also like to add that witout my expressed written notarized permission is craig gottleib or any associates of his permitted to use,reproduce sell or display my personal photographs in any capacity.

[ErichS]

Hi Creed and welcome back! Sorry you had to part with such a special ring and weren't compensated justly for such an important historical piece.

[whizkid]

Gottlieb about to get the hammer

I was told by the Chairman of the OMVS that a police Shako was stolen from his table at a show and then appeared on one of Gottlieb's "auctions". He allegedly refused, when confronted, to disclose where he got it. I was told he is being tossed out of all SOS and MAX organizations. Watch and see how this one develops. The Shako had unique things that were easily identifiable and it was the same one.

[von shock]

well,i would like to say that surprises me but it doesnt. the problem is the damage he has already done to the hobby. wouldnt it be nice to see him confronted by someone on pawn stars on mainstream tv!

[tanker]

If that was going to happen, it would have been done long before on some of his other "problems"! Money talks! CG has been confronted all too often on some high dollar pieces only too fade away unharmed. Well, unharmed in the buisnes sense, but reputation is forever tarnished! Those shows are ok, but it just amazes me with their MAX certified items/programs and then when something is brought to their attention, nothing happens. Still and always will be the "good ole boy" network! Look at Houston Coates on GDC. He was "caught" doing some manipuation on a dagger. Nothing happened! Those shows aren't going to do a darn thing to these folks. I bet this thread gets shut down before too long for questioning the "Big" players.Ron

I was told by the Chairman of thOMVS that a police Shako was stolen from his table at a show and then appeared on one of Gottlieb's "auctions". He allegedly refused, when confronted, to disclose where he got it. I was told he is being tossed out of all SOS and MAX organizations. Watch and see how this one develops. The Shako had unique things that were easily identifiable and it was the same one.