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**k-dog** · 12-05-2013, 03:23 PM

One more picture of whole set. Some books are now better visible

**FrenchVolunteer** · 12-05-2013, 03:57 PM

Hi,

wow. Really amazing lot.

Okay, i will give you some infos and prices for every set (and yes I and Loïc - helbe we are really into them).

First, i can't say a lot about the "SA-Führer" booklets. I need a bit more time.

Then you have three SS-Hauptamt booklets (the ones with the "arm band").

- "SS-Mann Und Blutsfrage" is pretty uncommon, but TWO variants exist (you have the later one). It was even reprinted in the 1990's in Germany.

- "Der Weg Der NSDAP" is not common, but not the rarest booklet. Two variants exist, you have the first one (strangely easier to find than the later one). It was also reprinted in Germany.

- "Der Weg Zum Reich" exist in one variant (we need to check that as i have for examples three copies). It seemed to be the most common SS-Hauptamt booklet.

The next booklet is not uncommon, i need more time to check it.

Now the SS-Leithefte....

See You

Vince

**k-dog** · 12-05-2013, 04:05 PM

Thanks for your help Vince!

I found letter in one of the books

**FrenchVolunteer** · 12-05-2013, 04:25 PM

Hi,

i'm working on additional infos for you ^_^

The HJ booklet is very very common...

"Der SA-Führer" issues are also very very common...

The "Gutes Blut, Ewige Quelle" extra booklet of "SS-Mann Und Blutfrage" was MAYBE printed in another variant... I need to check.

The lnsert in "Der Weg Der NSDAP" is interesting. In various SS publications you will find local or national inserts that are informing the reader of the addition of special booklets, leaflets, change of prices, delays etc.

Those inserts may or may not be available in all the issues for which they were designed for.

See You

Vince

**Michael Fay** · 12-05-2013, 05:56 PM

Not much to add after Vince,
all of yours show the aging of time so cant call them in best condition=price
nicks, dog eared covers ,scratches to cover , rusty staples, loose pages should consider into price also (no matter what state condition clearly when selling)

but in my opinion I will rank them in descending order from monetary standpoint.

1)Feb '43 issue (with the TK ring) is wanted by cross collectors. In general, that one is the easiest sell for a higher price.

2)Bloodfrage is the one that is the least seen available.

3)Germanisch heft are not seen so often.

4)in general artwork covers are more popular with collectors
5)regular blank covers are , in general , the hardest to get rid of for a, lets say, higher price.

6)SA stuff is hard to sell, Believe me.

PS the insert is nice. don't know if it was originally in more than that one, but after so much time most inserted items have been lost.So a nice touch for sure to go with the correct magazine/heften.

**Etienne B.** · 12-05-2013, 05:59 PM

I think the ''SS man und Blutsfrage'' and the ''totenkopf ring'' are the most expensive.Price depends on the state.'
The two other with the band could bring around 100-125,00 euro,the normal ones around 60,00 -80,00 euros.if some one offers to buy the lot give him some discount.

The sa magazines are really normal so I should say around 10,00-15,00 each depending on articles and state.

just my opinions...........

**FrenchVolunteer** · 12-05-2013, 08:19 PM

Hi,

okay more on the prices now. ^_^
This is taken from our experience from late 2010 to late 2013 (Loïc and I).
We fully respect people ready to pay a lot of money, but sometimes this is better to pass your turn.

I gave a full listing with prices from our personal collection to Jindrich.
We paid some items a very high price, but they were Worth the price paid, you can be sure of that.

"SS-Mann..." this is the second edition. First one is made by/with the SS-Schulungsamt.
About the prices of SS-Hauptamt booklets, i'm sorry to say that usually the prices proposed on web stores are JUST RIDICULOUS. Period.
I found many ultra rare booklets for "cheaper" prices.
How many times "Rassenleib" was seen ? And "20. April" ? "Der Dollar Rollt" ?
"Grenzkampf Ost" ? "Sicherungs Europa" ? To my knowledge as much as "SS-Mann" since late 2010. "Therefore "SS-Mann" is not "rarer" (best proof : you have it ^_^).

"Bauerntum" has a nice cover, but the content is a reprint from a book published before the war... A few copies were sold since 2010.

To me ultra rare items are never seen like those ones :

"Die Geistigen Grundlagen Der Englischen Weltmachtpolitik"
"Der Glaube Japans" (available on the net, ridiculous price)
"Rote Weltrevolution" (i don't remember if it is for sale...)
"Die Sowjet-Union - Raum Und Volker"
"9. November"
"Glauben Und Kampfen" (available on the net, ridiculous price)
"Weihnachten Im Kriege" (some were sold in the past)
"Die Feier 1 / 2" (Michael is the proud owner of some originals, amazing items !!!!! Worth the price)

I'm not talking of the SS-Schulungsamt booklets published before 1942... Those ones are almost impossible to find. They were done before it was asked to the Amt to only publish booklets, and not have training officers on the field. A thesis is in progress in France about it... But shhhhhhht. ^_^

I'm not including ultra rare (and even rarer) publications we purchased ^_^

If you collect SS-Hauptamt booklets, you may be ready to pay a bit more than usual. It's up to you to see what you want to pay.
Usually SS-Hauptamt ideology training publications cost from 50 to +200 Euros.

"Der Weg Der NSDAP" is not common, but not ultra rare. Each variant i purchased was sold for less than 100 Euros in excellent condition.

"Der Weg Zum Reich" is not common, but almost. A few sellers are trying to sell their copies on the net since 2010 and to my knowledge the copies are still unsold for less than 150 Euros in average condition...
My three copies (probably only one edition) were purchased for less than 100 Euros (60 ? Maybe a bit more).

About SS-Germanische Leithefte, the average price of the around 55 issues i have is 70 Euros, and i'm including all the foreign issues (tell me the price of one issue of the "Annales de la brigade d'assaut Wallonie" ? 250 ? 350 ? 450 Euros in excellent condition ?).

German issues of the SS-Germanische Leithefte are Worth around 50 to 90 Euros, depending on the inserts included on them. And condition.
Other issues from 1942 were paid by me for around 60 to 70 Euros.

Now about the SS-Leithefte. I think that too many people are been fooled and tricked by the "El Dorado" of the "SS nazi books with good looking covers".

The "Totenkopfring" issue (2 of 1943) is the biggest joke on Earth.
People are buying it for silly prices, i'm very angry against them because they are throwing their money from their Windows... For the same price they could buy ultra rare SS-Hauptamt publications. Guys, do not pay the price you are proposing. Really.
If you want to spend up to 150 Euros, this is bad. If you want to spend more than 200 Euros, you can pay that price but for one of the first 12 issues from 1936. You will have a very nice item in your collection (early Leitheft were numbered to around 10000 copies).
This SS-Leitheft was published to the same number like the others from 1943-1944, around 100000 copies (!!!) if i clearly remember. This was the time when the SS-Hauptamt saw that they needed to make "money", and they increased the number of copies printed and sold (to almost everyone by the way...).
This is like the "Rede Des Reichsführers" booklet... Printed to million of copies (confirmed by Nordland Verlag official archives !). People are buying it for more than 400 Euros... God have mercy.

I do not want to say that we are smarter than others. We don't have the budget of most of the SS collectors. But sometimes you have to say "no".
Loic and I we have purchased our copy for 61 and 50 Euros... Complete, in very good condition. And one of the issues was gathering dust on a well famous militaria dealer from Germany web store...

In another hands, people are not interested by other issues from 1943, issues that are holding special inserts and are more interesting that the "Totenkopfring" Leitheft...

Issues from 1942 to 1944 can be found - if you search for them - for around 50 Euros each issue, complete in very good condition.
Yes, some issues are more rare (late 1944 for example).
Again, you need to have the inserts too.

A very important thing : many SS-Leithefte you may find are incomplete, with missing pages. Be really careful.

Since we started collecting, i think we had a few incomplete issues. Most of the time we didn't know that, and the seller was unaware of that too.
Most of the sellers are honest people fortunately, you can get a small refund.

As we previously said in other topics :

Heft 1 > 7 (1943) : 48 pages
Heft 8 > 12 (1943) : 52 pages
Heft 1 > 11 (1944) : 52 pages

Before that, you can contact us (helbe or FrenchVolunteer) if you have a doubt for some issues...

Price of the 1943 to 1944 issues ? No more than 50 Euros in my opinion.
Keep your money for early years issues.

Recently (October 2013) we helped a friend to buy a lot of around 10 SS-Leithefte for less (!) than 50 Euros each (1943 to 1944).

I had (November 2013) a spare copy of the SS-Leitheft 2 of 1944, i sold it 50 Euros to a friend too.

About the evolution of the market, i will not lie. In 2010-2011 we were able to find dozen of SS-Leithefte each month... In 2012 it seemed that the SS-Leithefte were rarer.
Only this fall (autumn 2013) around 40 issues were proposed for sale... Late 2012, early 2013 it was hard to find SS-Leithefte. And some people made a lot of easy money.

SS-Leithefte may be expensive only because "new born SS collectors" want to put too much money on them. Just wait and learn. We lost dozen of lots, we almost cried for some of them since 2010. But with time you may always find what you want.

Interesting infos i already gave elsewhere : SS-Leithefte big lots are not sold for high prices. Best examples are the two lots sold in Hermann Historica 61 and a later auction. Around +70 and +40 issues. Final price was +60 / +55 Euros all included for each issue. Those were good deals.

About SA and HJ magazines, those issues are available on the net for 5 to 10 Euros, and they are not selling well...
But again maybe you are missing some issues, and those ones may be very important for you.

See You

Vince

**Michael Fay** · 12-05-2013, 09:06 PM

valuation criterions and theory vs. collecting world buying trends

Vince,
your prices are correct...except WHEN they sell for more.
Sometimes they do.

I love your deep seated point of view as to what they are actually worth in your estimation.

For the most part , I agree...except to allow for the fact that some times someone DOES pay more. Not always, but sometimes.

My explanation as to what will sell (see above) for k-dog based on what I see is the overall reality of what sells.
Not on my own personal understandings on what is truly important.
At some point, I would respectfully tell you that you are using your own criterion as to what is rare/worth more...but others see it a bit different and as such may spend more on an item than you think is correct or makes sense.

For instance Vince , while I personally agree with almost all your points , I have my OWN criterion as to what is special. It is based on my own research into what I like.
What I am after personally - I will not discuss anymore in public and have not for a few years now. But I did not allow my own criterion to influence what I told k-dog in public. I only told him what I , to the best of my ability, believe to be the current general collecting norm in the hobby as a whole (which is all he asked for).

PS Vince-will send PM to debate personal criterions

**Michael Fay** · 12-05-2013, 09:34 PM

collecting class 101

Originally posted by FrenchVolunteer View Post

"....A very important thing : many SS-Leithefte you may find are incomplete, with missing pages. Be really careful.

Since we started collecting, i think we had a few incomplete issues. Most of the time we didn't know that, and the seller was unaware of that too.
Most of the sellers are honest people fortunately, you can get a small refund...."
Vince

Not for k-dog, but for collecting class 101 :Just to add, watch out for editions with replaced covers. see here
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=440221

**FrenchVolunteer** · 12-06-2013, 04:48 AM

Hi,

yes Michael, sometimes a collector is ready to break his heart and his credit card in two.

But like i said to Jindrich - and in our reply - sometimes i know that you need to show your guts to the other potential buyers ^_^

Today we are in a position in which many potential buyers are interested :

- SS-Hauptamt collectors
- SS-Leithefte collectors
- SS collectors
- people that are not into but who want to take the opportunity to buy something rare and interesting (in that case, opinions on "rare" may differ)

Those 4 types of collectors (i'm myself collecting SS-Hauptamt and SS-Leithefte, arg, two criterias in one) can play big big money...

In another hands, and to explain myself a bit more, i had in the past the opportunity to have big rarities (i mean BIG ones) proposed to me, and to me only.
In the case in which the item is "deeply needed", i will always propose a big sum of money in the minute, sometimes proposing more than the guy even expected.
This year i outbidded my "usual" credit line for a few items (i gave examples to Jindrich).

And i'm talking of publications that "don't look that sexy to the common SS collector's eye".

Infact when you "know" your subject, you will be able to put a lot of money for a few items. Even if you may get another one far cheaper a few months after.
It depends of the opportunity.

To the contrary you may find rare items proposed for a cheap price. I got recently the SS-Leitheft 11 of 1944 almost for nothing...
And yes, if you see some "Annales de la brigade d'assaut Wallonie", you don't ask the price, you give your credit card numbers to the seller.

See You

Vince

**FrenchVolunteer** · 12-06-2013, 04:51 AM

Hi,

currently we are not collecting "reprints" done in the USA and in Germany in the 90's.
But i keep a listing of the SS-Hauptamt booklets that were reprinted (i have some).

Usually it is "easy" to spot copies, real counterfeits and copies are not that easy to find.

See You

Vince

**Michael Fay** · 12-06-2013, 05:15 AM

Deleted double post

**Michael Fay** · 12-06-2013, 05:17 AM

[QUOTE=FrenchVolunteer;6180641]"....Today we are in a position in which many potential buyers are interested :

- SS-Hauptamt collectors
- SS-Leithefte collectors
- SS collectors
- people that are not into but who want to take the opportunity to buy something rare and interesting (in that case, opinions on "rare" may differ)..."
[END QUOTE]

Vince, there is at least one other: the buyer who is a dealer who wants to resell it to you for a profit.

**FrenchVolunteer** · 12-06-2013, 08:07 AM

Hi,

yes Michael, i forgot that, but to be honest i think that Jindrich is trying to avoid that, and he will try to set up market prices, but i the higher range if i'm right...

I will never pay something i really want if it is ridiculous.
The only exception is when you have 99% of the items, and the missing 1% is for sale. My only personal examples are for Depeche Mode and Nirvana live bootlegs... (and yes i'm also collecting CDs and LPs).

See You

Vince

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SS collection - Leithefte and other

SS collection - Leithefte and other

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