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How to identify fake "Italian" SS Covers

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    How to identify fake "Italian" SS Covers

    Many of the "Italian" SS Covers floating around share one common trait. The creator faked double needle construction. I have seen about half a dozen of these covers in person- 5 of the 6 had this little quirk. At the MAX I picked one up from a rather disgruntled dealer who had gotten it returned. There have been several furballs on WAF involving these- at first I wasn't sure faking this stitch it could be done. After one of the last go 'rounds on here, I went back into the factory and was able to work it out in before the coffee was done- but it's a bugger to do. (Both edges must be pre-folded, then held together evenly while sewing a curve- not fun or easy.)

    This is an absolute 100% "smoking gun". Faking a 2-needle is very time consuming and difficult- hats off to the guy who did this nice a job- but they hanged themselves so to speak by doing so. No factory would ever waste time with this- they would simply use the single needle method (both are used on real covers).

    The photos will do the talking, but I'll explain it anyway- I realize that this may cause migraines for those who don't sew. It's easy to see this via two things:

    1. Two needle machines use fixed needles. They are mounted in a steel needle bar and screwed in (see pic). They move together- the stitches will be like railroad tracks. If the gap between the stitches wobbles, it's bad news. (However, when the fabric bunches up in the folder one stitch can look sloppier).

    2. The smoking gun: Both stitches on 2 needles seams will be sewn in the same direction- both right and left will both be top or bottom stitches. Top being the side of the fabric the person sewing it can see, and the bottom being the underside. The top stitches tend to be more humped, while the lower ones usually are more "relaxed" and have traces of the needle punching downward.
    This isn't "IMHO", this is physical fact.

    - The third pic is what an original 2 needle seam looks like.

    - The last pic is of one of the machines in question. The two pieces of cloth are fed into the sheet metal folder, which laps them around one another as they head under the needles. Feeding them in evenly, hour after hour, takes a skilled operator. (I hate this thing.)

    (Side note: whether the machine is operated by electric motor or foot treadle has no effect on the stitch length! That is determines by gears in the machine head- which are adjustable on every machine I've ever encountered. ) <p> And yes, now the creators will change their ways, but they always do. The game continues...

    Fake 2 needle = busted.<p><p><p>
    <p>

    #2
    You're beautiful!

    But!

    Comment


      #3
      Great! I have also study this fake cover you show here. Got it home in a trade, but saw at once something was not right..returned it imidiatly to a dissapointed owner. When compare to other originals and with experiance in mind, it is clare they just aint right. Clips are new also. Good explenation shown here!
      Cheers
      Gisle

      Comment


        #4
        More info here: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=italian+cover

        One thread that dealt with those italian covers in lenght, including the stitching (last three pages or so).

        Cheers

        Comment


          #5
          I really really like the detail included here. I have come across the same cover and returned it politely. I explained to the dealer that it was a very fine copy with what seems to be original cloth bit, you know when something is just not right. I saw the uneven double stitch width and know that originally the machinist will have been of the finest skill set though probably forced labour. Thclips weren't quite right. Too thin and pointy

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            #6
            "This is an absolute 100% "smoking gun". Faking a 2-needle is very time consuming and difficult- hats off to the guy who did this nice a job- but they hanged themselves so to speak by doing so. No factory would ever waste time with this- they would simply use the single needle method (both are used on real covers). "

            Hi N160,
            I'm not a "SS-covers" collector (but I like 'em) and maybe I'm not so deep in American Language so I don't fully understand:
            those kind of double sewing (on originals) are always made by two needles machine or they could be done with a single needle machine as well (I'm talking always on originals).
            Thanks a lot for answer...
            All my best
            Giorgio

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by giorgio View Post
              "
              Hi N160,
              I'm not a "SS-covers" collector (but I like 'em) and maybe I'm not so deep in American Language so I don't fully understand:
              those kind of double sewing (on originals) are always made by two needles machine or they could be done with a single needle machine as well (I'm talking always on originals).
              Thanks a lot for answer...
              All my best
              Giorgio
              Nope. Only double needle machines make two visible rows on both sides of a felled (interlocked) seam. Felled seams made with a single needle machine cover one row on the first side sewn since it must be folded back to create the interlock. To imitate the 2 needle machine seam with a single needle is tricky and time consuming- there is no legitimate reason to do this aside from counterfeiting. I stand by this one 100%. (Both constructions are used on original covers.)

              Here's what a single needle felled seam looks like on a real cover:

              Comment


                #8
                Here's how one makes a "fake 2 needle seam". A real artist could carefully sew both stitches from the same side, but keeping them perfectly spaced is nigh impossible. The curve of the helmet cover makes it very difficult to keep everything even. Holding the pre-folded sides together while sewing the curve is very tough- it may look like no big deal, but it's a real booger to do. A normal single needle felled seam is much quicker and easier. No factory (especially the Germans) is going to waste time screwing around with such folly. You can even look up "flat felled seam" and this method is not even addressed because it's not a viable option. It's only for fooling people.
                <p>
                <p>
                <p>
                Last edited by n160; 10-15-2013, 12:07 PM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  In the case of a 2 needle machine....it is unnecessary to fold and iron the seam and make a second pass. Everything is done in one go. Lots of time saved- probably 3-4 minutes per cover. In mass production of a small item, that's huge.
                  However, the machine operator must feed the cloth into the folder evenly and consistently to create a good seam. It takes quite awhile to achieve a level of proficiency and many never get it right. Of my 8 sewers, only two are really good at it despite all having 20+ years experience in sewing factories. <p> As for my me spreading dis-information to sell fake covers...my machine requires too much tension to feed and original thread breaks. We've tried to use it for repro covers but even my best gal struggles to get good results due to the tight curve. And the gauge (needle spacing) is wrong. Most originals are 8mm. Just FYI. Single needle is just as legit and we don't have to fight with this blasted machine. If we start making hundreds of covers, then we'll fight with it...

                  <p>
                  <p>
                  <p>

                  Comment


                    #10
                    This is how you make a felled seam with a single needle machine and why on one side only one stitch is visible.

                    On the first pass, the two parts are sewn opposite one another:

                    <p>
                    Then the edge is creased and pressed.

                    <p>
                    Then the fabric is folded back into it's final position and a second pass is made....
                    <p>
                    When the fabric is folded back, one stitch gets covered. Hence, 2 stitches visible on one side and only one on the other.
                    <p>

                    Comment


                      #11
                      What an outstanding and informative thread - ! (no pun intended ) Many thanks for taking such a huge amount of time to educate us, not to mention the $$$ that will be saved.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I have learned more from this thread than I have in the past 45 years.

                        Thank you very much for the informative, and priceless, lesson!

                        Bob Hritz
                        In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

                        Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can muffle the sound.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          And of course n160 is the author of this fundamental thread (which is now cited routinely by dealers and others):

                          http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=W-SS+M36

                          Why he is not recognized for his contributions is beyond me..

                          Mike
                          Last edited by Mike C; 10-15-2013, 06:53 PM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Bravo

                            Great thread, well illustrated.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              NOW will you guys start checking your smocks? Over the past ten years I have fondled roughly 100 SS smocks- only one (an M40) did not have two needle stitching used on the main side seams- the ones that run from the cuffs, down the sides to the skirt. This got to be a peeve of mine in 1998 when I first noticed it. And I am still suspicious of that M40.

                              Basically, I haven't found a real smock yet without 2 needle felling on the side seams. Single needle on a smock is a red light...not quite 100%, but it should be a cue to look harder. This appears to hold true for Heer smocks and Gebirgs anoraks too. As of now, it's VERY unusual for any reproductions to have this stitch- a handful do, but most are actually older, crappy ones. Tip: SMW does not have this machine.


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