How Plane Tree works

[Fritz]

Sure Fritz, let me help you with the whole quote:

"A nice post for the novice collector, for those who are into camo it is yesterday's news."

If I misinterpreted your tone, sorry about that.

regards, Robert

That entire quote is not wrong in any way. It is true to its entire extent. As for compliments, that you apparently thought were lacking, the first part is of relevance.

A novice will learn from it and a collector that focuses on camo knows all that.

On the other hand: There are camo related things that even camo collectors don't know about....



Yes, apparently you did.

Cheers

[RobertE]

Not fishing for compliments, just civility. And I agree on your comment about us all having stuff to learn, certainly me.

regards, Robert

[n160]

Another general printing note:

Since silk screens were hand cut in WWII (and probably for the next 50 years), the same pattern will vary slightly. To make them, the pattern was draw on an adhesive film, and then it was cut out with a knife. This created a stencil which was then bonded to a fine mesh to make the screen. Screens wear out after so much use, or some nitwit forgets to wash the ink off which dries out and ruins the mesh, etc, etc..

Thus, even two apparently identical items, same maker and year, will show minor differences in the pattern if you lay them right next to each other and compare point to point. They tend to be 85-95% identical, but some spots are bigger or smaller, a few may be missing and the cut blocks sometimes aren't staggered very much. Roller patterns are the same way. This is also why 44 dot has "big & small" dots. Different screens cut by different hands at different times.

Also, the ink was sometimes thinned more causing more bleed- ie: fatter numbers softer edges on the blobs and so forth. Like the top zelt in the pic below.

Who cares? From time to time I have seen people stress out after they compare the same points in the pattern on a zeltbahn and a helmet cover or cap and notice that the numbers (or blobs, spots, etc) are not 100% identical to one another. (It might even have happened on this very forum...)
This is to show you that they could both still be real- or both be fake or any combination thereof. Owen snores.

Again, I'm sure that the experts all know this. But, I know that not everyone on here is one.

As usual, a picture is the best demo:

[CENTER]

[Fritz]

Another general printing note:

(...)

[CENTER]

That is all correct, yet your pictures are (most likely) showing two zelts from two different makers (note double vs single needle centre seam) and somewhat different time frames (grommets).

If time permits I will make an according post (that supports your point) with two zelts that can be narrowed to a couple of weeks/months and are from one maker.

Cheers

[salt*creek]

I guess you guys didn't get my point regarding Borsarello. Rollin probably did! This was the "bible" published in 1986 and written by Borsarello. His theory of the plane tree pattern is a far cry from reality. See photos from the book. At the time, this was the best book on SS camo along with volume 2. When we looked at original SS zeltbahns and smocks, this illustration confused the hell out of us.

[salt*creek]

By the way, in the Beaver book published in 1995, Borsarello was definately involved. The book does mention that the patterns were printed right side and left side in a pair 1/2 3/4 5/6. Obviously different than the illustration in the 1986 book.

[militarymania]

my head is about to explode!,,,,

[Fritz]

By the way, in the Beaver book published in 1995, Borsarello was definately involved. The book does mention that the patterns were printed right side and left side in a pair 1/2 3/4 5/6. Obviously different than the illustration in the 1986 book.

Exactly! If you ask me I would rather believe that that info was coming from Mike Beaver but Borsarello should have known about that detail at least from the point on when they wrote that book.

Cheers

[camo master]

n160
You've done a great job here explaining this complicated camo pattern. I am positive there are many collectors just starting out or have even been collecting for years that dont understand how the production of this pattern worked. Even though they remain on the side lines because of all the bull**** comments - Im sure they find your post of great benefit.

Thanks for taking the time to put this post up.
Mark

[90th Light]

As far as I know it will be shown in the afore mentioned book. I hope the work on that book will be finished "soon".

Cheers

Anyone know if this book "Fritz" keeps referring was ever published or is going to be published ???

Thanks,

Chris

[kammo man]

Guys
Let's not all get crazy and open a can of cammo worms here.
It's a complex subject no doubt and we don't need to get into the nit picking fight by the 2 loonies who have no clue about the women's Italian wool camp uniform.
Any input that is thoughtfull on the patterns should be welcomed.



Now on A serious sidebar on Zelts .........

Did you know that on early Zelts the edging pattern was printed single sided ONLy for the edge en mass as a single screen ??????

This was news to me until I seen busted early 1-2 3-4 5-6 opened up reveali g this aspect of design.
Single sided cammo printed on the face side with white on the other it's a great insight into German thinking and building.
At first I called BS on it but after seeing it on numerous Zelts had a OK UFOs are real moment.

Owen

[90th Light]

Thank you for a thoughtful and insightful contribution Owen,

now coming back to the question I asked;

the book "Fritz" refers to, was ever published or is it going to be published ?

Chris

[90th Light]

Is this the book ?

Chris

[90th Light]

Looks good,

Chris

[kammo man]

It's going to be a good read for sure !

Let's hope the edging info makes it in

Owen