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**Wilhelm Dippold** · 09-19-2004, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by derspiess63

It was a not-so-opaque reference to nativity scenes!
Cheers
Manny

P.S.;I'd never dare to slam/criticize a fellow member's collection!

Oh, okay. No offense taken, then. I guess I am just thinking a bit too hard. Even if your comment had been as I had suspected, as I said, I would have nonetheless gotten the joke. And, as I did admit, it WAS funny.

In a way, it's almost a shame you didn't mean it as I had thought. It would have made for some devastating satire, which I can appreciate.

Jerry

**derspiess63** · 09-19-2004, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by Wilhelm Dippold

Oh, okay. No offense taken, then. I guess I am just thinking a bit too hard. Even if your comment had been as I had suspected, as I said, I would have nonetheless gotten the joke. And, as I did admit, it WAS funny.

In a way, it's almost a shame you didn't mean it as I had thought. It would have made for some devastating satire, which I can appreciate.

Jerry

Hi Wilhelm,
I don't know about your collection and this is the first time we exchange PMs/posts,but, should your collection be the biggest gathering of t urds ever seen to date I wouldn't comment at all!I do my best to slam fakers and crooks but I'd never do the same with a fellow's pieces;I'd tell him politely that in my humble opinion there's something not quite right here and there for this or another reason, but satire would be out of the question!I got a kick out of slamming Phoef's turds but that's it!
Cheers
Manny

**TMurray** · 09-19-2004, 06:29 PM

"Handschar" fezs..I have questioned the authenticity of these a number of times...seems there is a glut of 'mint condition' fezs offered in the market at the moment, you only have to surf a handful of sites to see this..but I'm told they are all' genuine'...yeah likely...found in a barn no doubt!!

- Thomas

**Matthew T S** · 09-20-2004, 02:24 AM

Originally posted by TMurray

"Handschar" fezs..I have questioned the authenticity of these a number of times...seems there is a glut of 'mint condition' fezs offered in the market at the moment, you only have to surf a handful of sites to see this..but I'm told they are all' genuine'...yeah likely...found in a barn no doubt!!

- Thomas

Uh oh. Let's not start another 'Dachau' debate.

**Wilhelm Dippold** · 09-20-2004, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by derspiess63

Hi Wilhelm,
I don't know about your collection and this is the first time we exchange PMs/posts,but, should your collection be the biggest gathering of turds ever seen to date I wouldn't comment at all! I do my best to slam fakers and crooks but I'd never do the same with a fellow's pieces; I'd tell him politely that in my humble opinion there's something not quite right here and there for this or another reason, but satire would be out of the question! I got a kick out of slamming Phoef's turds but that's it!
Cheers
Manny

Well, I have posted a couple of items, which few in this forum, if any, seem to like very much. Of course, the old proviso has several times been offered: "If you like it, then, that's all that matters." That's all well and good, I suppose, but there is a certain psychological need for affirmation from one's peers that is, I think, peculiar to every serious collector. I would not have posted these items if that was not the case.

As my main interest is with the German imperial era, I can assure you that my collection is not a "collection" of turds. I have got some good stuff. Yes, I have been watching the Phoef drama unfold, and I can only say that perhaps he brought it all upon himself with his disingenuousness in trying, desperately, to unload the notorious "barn-found" piece.

Yes, everyone hates to get burned. Personally, I would like to see some of the longtime forum members display a few of their own misadventures. That would be the height of honesty and rectitude. It's one thing to say, "We've all been there," or, "I've got one displayed in the bathroom just to remind me." But it is quite another to deliver the goods, or the "bads," as it were. Come on, man. Put your money where your mouth is. Perhaps I ask too much?

I also dislike the stinginess of some members with regard to the details of construction for an original piece. Oh, yes, they're afraid of revealing something the bootleggers can use. I wonder, how many of this forum's members are undercover bootleggers? The question is merely rhetorical. For all the advertisement that this forum is a place to share and learn, I'm sorry, I just don't see it - at least not in this area. This is not forum-bashing. It is merely constructive criticism. And these are not ancient Chinese secrets.

I do appreciate your unwillingness to derisively comment on a fellow forum member's collection. It is unfortunate that more here do not adopt that code of ethics. It is also a shame that the Moderators seem to look askance at only that member who tries to defend himself against the onslaught, especially when the fracas involves an "Associate Member" vs. a "Lifetime Member."

It reminds me of altercations that occur in American football, wherein the camera only picks up the infraction of the player who dares to retaliate. Needless to say, the referees tend to penalize on that lopsided basis. Such seems to be the case here as well, and there is nothing moderate about it.

Jerry

**derspiess63** · 09-20-2004, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by Wilhelm Dippold

Well, I have posted a couple of items, which few in this forum, if any, seem to like very much. Of course, the old proviso has several times been offered: "If you like it, then, that's all that matters." That's all well and good, I suppose, but there is a certain psychological need for affirmation from one's peers that is, I think, peculiar to every serious collector. I would not have posted these items if that was not the case.

As my main interest is with the German imperial era, I can assure you that my collection is not a "collection" of turds. I have got some good stuff. Yes, I have been watching the Phoef drama unfold, and I can only say that perhaps he brought it all upon himself with his disingenuousness in trying, desperately, to unload the notorious "barn-found" piece.

Yes, everyone hates to get burned. Personally, I would like to see some of the longtime forum members display a few of their own misadventures. That would be the height of honesty and rectitude. It's one thing to say, "We've all been there," or, "I've got one displayed in the bathroom just to remind me." But it is quite another to deliver the goods, or the "bads," as it were. Come on, man. Put your money where your mouth is. Perhaps I ask too much?

I also dislike the stinginess of some members with regard to the details of construction for an original piece. Oh, yes, they're afraid of revealing something the bootleggers can use. I wonder, how many of this forum's members are undercover bootleggers? The question is merely rhetorical. For all the advertisement that this forum is a place to share and learn, I'm sorry, I just don't see it - at least not in this area. This is not forum-bashing. It is merely constructive criticism. And these are not ancient Chinese secrets.

I do appreciate your unwillingness to derisively comment on a fellow forum member's collection. It is unfortunate that more here do not adopt that code of ethics. It is also a shame that the Moderators seem to look askance at only that member who tries to defend himself against the onslaught, especially when the fracas involves an "Associate Member" vs. a "Lifetime Member."

It reminds me of altercations that occur in American football, wherein the camera only picks up the infraction of the player who dares to retaliate. Needless to say, the referees tend to penalize on that lopsided basis. Such seems to be the case here as well, and there is nothing moderate about it.

Jerry

Hi Jerry,
I agree on many things you've written in your post, but let me tell you that I'm always more than willing to share those "Ancient Chinese secrets"(the ones I know, at least!) with anybody in need!In fact,I think I'll start a thread soon focusing on how to tell a good piece from a bad one, simply posting as many detailed pictures of original specimen as I'll possibly can!
What the hey...I know that it may as well help fakers and improve their turds but one thing is for sure;it will definitely help young and less-experienced collectors big time by giving them the chance to virtually "check out in the flesh" a piece without handling it!
Cheers
Manny

P.S.;I've been fortunate enough not to have bought a single fake in my whole life(so far I may add

!)but it's only because I've been lucky...many good friends/collectors have taught me a lot and saved me from getting burned!I've risked many times, but luck had it that something or someone always put me back on the right track at the right moment(often the very last!

!)...I'd love to share my (VERY)limited experience and I'd love to see other members who are much more experienced and advanced collectors than I am to do the same!

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