E-stand fake wooden crap, how long do we have to keep up with that?

[CWP]

The seller is offering items and providing documentation that link these with NS and SS cultural ideas of the time. Of course these items also existed before and after WWII, the items themselves may be impossible to date with any level of accuracy but I'm not sure that the seller is absolutely claiming that each item is without question pre-1945. My impression is that the seller is offering these items as representative of typical cultural items made or used during the period as part of the NS ideology, I don't see any major crime there. In fact to be honest I have learned more about the period and culture from his posts about the various wooden and wrought-iron artifacts he has collected and sold, than I ever could from countless posts about minute variations in maker stamps on infantry assault badges, for instance. I don't really understand why this seller provokes so much ire. Yes, there is a photograph that shows a piece of furniture and in the background, woodcarving tools that Thorsten says are not his. Well, what does that really prove? I have a computer printer and a pen, are all my documents and IDs fake then? If items are reproduced and still being made, does that mean that original period examples do not exist? To be fair, I agree that any specific claim that these various items, which may pre-date WWII by centuries, are "SS" items to be tenuous at best. But I see a lot of items on the "Miscellaneous" E-Stand table that are questionable, not as described, possibly not even related to the period, etc. and it is not just Thorsten selling these, not sure why he should be singled out? I do support the idea of having a "Third Reich Arts" forum section to discuss porcelain, paintings, carvings, etc. as clearly these items are desirable and collectible and do not fit in any existing category, this would allow the more mainstream collectors to continue their focus on TK prong machine marks without interruption.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Of course these items also existed before and after WWII,

Exactly... but SS men bought cheese and shampoo as well... and those are not sold as "Cheese like the SS ate it!"...

[CWP]

Had the SS published books about the types of cheese and shampoo they used, illustrated with photos of these items in use, I would imagine surviving originals would be sold as "SS" items today. That appears to be the case with many of these "cultural" items offered for sale. It is not so different from an old period padlock being sold as "soldier's barracks padlock" or civilian tinned foodstuffs offered as ration items. This happens all the time on the E-Stand and elsewhere and is not limited to Thorsten, and to be honest I don't really object to it as unique, private purchase and decorative type items, though perhaps impossible to authenticate, are nevertheless collectible and of interest to many.

[PHILBROWN]

The seller is offering items and providing documentation that link these with NS and SS cultural ideas of the time. Of course these items also existed before and after WWII, the items themselves may be impossible to date with any level of accuracy but I'm not sure that the seller is absolutely claiming that each item is without question pre-1945. My impression is that the seller is offering these items as representative of typical cultural items made or used during the period as part of the NS ideology, I don't see any major crime there. In fact to be honest I have learned more about the period and culture from his posts about the various wooden and wrought-iron artifacts he has collected and sold, than I ever could from countless posts about minute variations in maker stamps on infantry assault badges, for instance. I don't really understand why this seller provokes so much ire. Yes, there is a photograph that shows a piece of furniture and in the background, woodcarving tools that Thorsten says are not his. Well, what does that really prove? I have a computer printer and a pen, are all my documents and IDs fake then? If items are reproduced and still being made, does that mean that original period examples do not exist? To be fair, I agree that any specific claim that these various items, which may pre-date WWII by centuries, are "SS" items to be tenuous at best. But I see a lot of items on the "Miscellaneous" E-Stand table that are questionable, not as described, possibly not even related to the period, etc. and it is not just Thorsten selling these, not sure why he should be singled out? I do support the idea of having a "Third Reich Arts" forum section to discuss porcelain, paintings, carvings, etc. as clearly these items are desirable and collectible and do not fit in any existing category, this would allow the more mainstream collectors to continue their focus on TK prong machine marks without interruption.

agree totally, thorsten seems to be targeted too regular here,its a form of bullying,if people are happy with the items sold,and they do sell,then why the slagging match,???? its been proved in page after page that theres no proof one way or the other,im sure i will be in for it now

[N.C. Wyeth]

agree totally, thorsten seems to be targeted too regular here,its a form of bullying,if people are happy with the items sold,and they do sell,then why the slagging match,???? its been proved in page after page that theres no proof one way or the other,im sure i will be in for it now

With you as well, PHILBROWN . . . and as I too have come to learn a few new and throughly interesting things from Thortsen's contributions, I also agree with Chris Pittman.

[Ian Hulley]

Having been openly ridiculed by Herr Beine for pointing out the 'Himmler' chair was an obvious fake I'm afraid he brings it upon himself. His arrogance and seemingly total lack of respect for honest members of this forum are truly staggering. Add to that a proven record of being caught selling fakes .....

Ian

[Bob Hritz]

I have bought several decorative items from Thorsten and have always been pleased with the items as well as the service. These are cultural items and are for decor. I appreciate the historic connection and add these items for my own home.

Bob Hritz

[juoneen]

Some people here are easily amused with such so called cultural items, and once even locally I was offered a wooden plate comemorating the 1938 annexation. I of course felt if any wooden item was over 50.00 it was too risky to buy from anyone, as most wooden items can easily be faked . Just do not purchase that stuff, and boycott those who continue to sell such items if you feel as many do that they are too risky. Although it would be nice if items like that could not be posted for sale, but posted as part of someones collection for display only , and only if it is not allowed to be sold on e stand without a disclaimer of possible fake status, or not even allow cultural items to be complained about here if someone get nailed by someone anywhere who buys such tripe ... anywhere on the net. (problem solved)

[Hoss]

Exactly... but SS men bought cheese and shampoo as well... and those are not sold as "Cheese like the SS ate it!"...

anyone suggest a good shampoo me hair is falling out. may as well turn it into a CG type post other people do makes a change from sniffing dirty underpants.

Hoss

[willcpfc]

Re: E-stand fake wooden crap, how long do we have to keep up with that?

Whether authentic or knocked up yesterday in a workshop. These things seem to sell for realistic prices. Realistic for crude and unappealing bits of wood. Fair play to those who buy the stuff though.... lol

[Hoss]

Didn't this anti-TB thing start over wedding caskets? I pm'd him a few times he seems very nice he either has a large reference or knows a lot about the period. Remember sometimes he posts items belonging to other people I'll never forget an incredible table he posted a couple of yrs back, doesn't have too I just thought it was cool of him.

Eric

[Jock Auld]

I have bought several decorative items from Thorsten and have always been pleased with the items as well as the service. These are cultural items and are for decor. I appreciate the historic connection and add these items for my own home.

Bob Hritz

Mr Hritz,

I am a bit surprised at your support as far as you have given it, you should be a politition (joke).

Should they if they are decorative items with only a connection to history not be listed in the Bazzar or you could get similar from IKEA or China?

I thought this was about serious collecting.

That was the point of the candle stick listed as 'original', the guy that got it was happy with a functional bit of decor but it was in the TR misc area and it should really have been in the Bazzar if it was newlly welded.

He would not answer questions from the guys that do it for a job (welding)?

Is this the start of where he is rehabilitated and anyone that doubts is the bad guy?

I don't think the forum is stupid enough for that.

Regards

Jock

[Jock Auld]

agree totally, thorsten seems to be targeted too regular here,its a form of bullying,if people are happy with the items sold,and they do sell,then why the slagging match,???? its been proved in page after page that theres no proof one way or the other,im sure i will be in for it now

Phil,

You are not for it but I noticed you have invited him down on to Mil trader.

Hunting down and outing fraudsters is not bulling.

You yourself were not happy with your purchase of the post war Bergen Belsen liporella that you bought and did we not hear about it?

You also have A moderartor on that site that likes to verify the validity of an item by talking to the dead.

This hobby is hard enough without that as well.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=656747

That link shows written proof that what he is selling is not quite as he describes it?

What is the problem with being honest and answering questions when asked/called out?

Regards

Jock

[pinkepank]

Dear fellow collectors,

Everyone who has followed this section (SS) has probably seen the absurd amount of (total unrelated to the SS) wooden crap being posted by one individual.

It would be easy to start a dozen topics here to call out what sales on the E-stand are not what they appear to be, but this one really stands out. I am making this topic in an attempt to get some reason to the forum again that this is not a good development:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=656316


a) The topic title says NS / SS --> THIS IS NOT AN NS or SS item! Where is the proof? And while we're at it: were is the proof for all the other sales by this man to be real SS items?

b) Thorsten sees a similar symbol in a dutch folder about the wartime exhibition "Eeuwig Levende Teekens" and thus creates his own gospel again. Why can he keep on doing this? I have been doing research on this exhibition for many years and using this booklet to call this wooden plate an SS item is the biggest nonsense!

c) The only relation that this booklet has to the SS is that it deals just like the Hamer magazines and the Leitheften about ANCIENT Dutch/German items. These booklets and magazines are filled with items from a period long before the SS came to life and calling everyting with a sunwheel, rune symbol, wrought iron... thus a period piece is totally wrong.

Can someone from the WAF team please do something to stop all this false advertising that claims that every cultural item is a SS item? The E-stand has become a junkyard, just look at the many (!) sales of Thorsten.

well said in the ss personalities thread i raised the point that his broach was cast no answer as to all this bowl stuff im a bit of a wood worker myself (making bowls, candle holders, and wooden statues) the peices shown could be knocked out by me wouldn't take half an hour especially the bowls the forum is brilliant but the more you look the more shocking things you see
most of his threads seem to be

[Jock Auld]

Didn't this anti-TB thing start over wedding caskets? I pm'd him a few times he seems very nice he either has a large reference or knows a lot about the period. Remember sometimes he posts items belonging to other people I'll never forget an incredible table he posted a couple of yrs back, doesn't have too I just thought it was cool of him.

Eric

Eric,

No, it didn't, it started some time before that when Mr Faye called him out relentlessly on some of his still as yet unsubstanciated claims.

I think where it changed is where a couple of members that weld for a living voiced concern about us of MIG/TIG welding on period items, I know the Germans were advanced but?

He was even given a get out of jail card in that he could have agreed that it was post war repaired but as ever remained silent when confronted with uncumfortable reading?

Regards

Jock