Some more photos...
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Hi everyone! I have been spending HOURS reading all the interesting threads on the forum since I joined. It has resulted in much excitement and inspiration, and also some questions. I was reading the thread on SS Camo Caps, and see that there is much uncertainty re. rarity, what makes an original, etc. I sold my SS collection years ago but kept this hat as I really liked it... I would like to post photos of mine to see what people think of it. It is a Plane tree #4, with sewn vents. I have had it for near 20 years now (not that this fact assures its originality, but just for info sake) and when I got it, someone had added a skull and eagle as there are sewing marks in those places. I bought it as an original, yet have been told (briefly) that it is a Japanese fake from a few years ago, however, as I have owned it for near 20 years, that does not make sense to me. Anyway, let's see what you think... Please take the time to have a good look at it, and I would appreciate comments and assessments of it when you find the time... I can always add specific photos as needed.
Thanks in advance,
Jason -
Cap is a fake
OwenComment
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It would be interesting to hear Owen's reasons but here is one that he himself posted some time ago as an original to compare with,
ChrisComment
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I would take a series of photos at exactly the same angle/ position as these ones and then post some comparative images for all to see and observe,
ChrisComment
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Also take some close ups of the weave of the cotton duck and the thread (twist of) used to stitch it together,
ChrisLast edited by 90th Light; 01-08-2013, 09:05 PM.Comment
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Thanks for your responses Owen and Chris,
As Chris mentioned, I would also be interested in some rationale for the statement, Owen if you would be so kind... In your opinion is it entirely "fake" or original material and sewn up... or...
After 98 views, and only one response with an opinion, I would appreciate some other assessments as I know there are a lot of experts out there who would actually be able to perhaps explain their opinion with some reasons...
Should I add some larger photos?
Thanks again!
Jason
Hi Chris, I just noticed your added comments - Cheers, good idea and I will do so this evening when I get home!Comment
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Compare the print on your cap with the one originally posted by Owen or other good Plane tree Jason, the shadowing around the dots or splotches is weak on the one posted for discussion, especially noticeable on the summer side. these caps are a real minefield from what is posted here on the waf, a good place to start is memorizing each different SS cammo pattern and after doing so most of the fakes jump out at you.
A decent source to see them all is in Michael Beavers book Uniforms of the Waffen SS which deals with Cammo in one vol. and better yet see his book Camouflage Uniforms of the Waffen SS.
KevinComment
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The caps roundles to me are nothing I have ever seen on an SS hat garment.
That being said
I have seen roundles machine made on pullovers made in 42 pullovers that were machine made are late war ...........
These have taken me back as they are thick and often in BLACK ........
the color on this cap has thrown me a bit .......
but a true cap has the twist ........
does this one ?Comment
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My cap is a 100% good number .
From the later issue.
I picked it from a batch of 6 that Jerome Blake had.
I know I missed his original offering but I creamed the lot .............
with the block cut edge .Comment
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Hi everyone! I finally got a chance to take some more photos...
Hi Kevin, thanks for your input here... Regarding the camo pattern and quality of the colours, I do have the Beaver book (great book!), and I am lucky enough to own the Borsarello and Lassus camo books from the mid 80's (also GREAT in their day!) which demonstrates the patterns in 2 slim, magazine-type publications. I have been able to see and physically examine many original smocks and even one original camo cap, which was in Blurred edge, so the aspects of this discussion on SS camo are not a stranger to me
Never-the-less, I have been out of the loop as I no longer collect SS since about 10 or 15 years ago... and yet still these aspects are, as you rightly put it, " a mine field" indeed! 
So at this point I am more interested in WHY people would think that my hat is NOT original, as well as what attributes people think confirm that it IS original...
Thanks Owen for your explanations. The colour of the camouflage on my hat are fine actually. I know only photos attached to a forum are hard to really see due to the photo itself (- lighting, conditions photo were taken, etc), yet close examination shows that this pattern on the cap for review matches exactly the camouflage pattern shown in Beaver's book on p. 25. In fact even the shades and "faded" kind of colours of those representation on page 25 match my cap perfectly. The cap is clearly made of Plane Tree #4 - It matches the examples in both Borsarello/Lassus and that in Beaver's book - so I am sure about the camo colour, material and the pattern... Just as a reminder, I got this cap from an old collector near 20 years ago... so it is not a cheap repro from 10 years ago, nor a high quality one from the last 5 years. I am pretty sure the material it is made from is genuine.
Notice the cuts of material which made the sides of my cap as compared with the pattern examples found in Borsarello/Lassus on the Left, and Beaver on the Right... I discovered this when I was trying to identify the pattern long ago when I first got the cap! Furthermore, it confirms that these caps were made form cuts from smock production...Comment
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Thanks for your comments on the roundels, Owen! The machine-sewn roundels not being black... I saw on page 139 of Beaver's book a photograph of a soldier wearing a cap with machine sewn roundels, and even in the black and white photograph, one can see clearly that the roundels are not sewn with black thread in that example. It is a light coloured thread. So they could be sewn in black or not sewn in black thread it would seem.
Regarding the twist - I am afraid I do not know what that means exactly, but are these photographs able to tell if this hat has the twist or not? If not please let me know the picture I should take that would help assess if it has the twist or not... Thanks!Comment
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Here are some more photographs of my hat to compare with others.
Cap front in Summer and in Fall colours...Comment
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Cap side and top in Fall colours...Comment
thanks Kevin
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