Dirlewanger Tab

[Wunhur]

Hi fellas,

I'm not 100% sure about this one. What do you guys think of it?Anyone want to post another original for close comparison?

Thanks

[Wunhur]

Reverse

[Al Haag]

Deleted due to this member being fictitious and the information he provided was a lie

[Wunhur]

I'm new to this field, a few pointers on why it is not original will be most helpful if I come across another Dirlewanger tab. And how much should the price range be for an original one, $150?

[Gary Wood]

I'm new to this field, a few pointers on why it is not original will be most helpful if I come across another Dirlewanger tab. And how much should the price range be for an original one, $150?

Your tab is original not a fake,
cheers,
Gary

[Lloyd I.]

I agree! 100 % good, meaning original not post war produced. I had 4 of these at one time along with other 'Dachau' type tabs and KZ kantina money.

[kampfer]

Nice original "dachau" made tab. This is one of the less common ones.

Martin K

[Wunhur]

Big thank you for all your insight. I guess there is always one paranoid amongst us.

[Chris Taylor]

Wunhur-

Per your request, here is my slighly mothed Derwiliger tab for comparison.

The backing on this one is seriouly deteriorated, hence the slightly warped appearance. Sorry I can't post a photo it, but I keep all my SS cloth in the old safe deposit box. This stuff is better than gold!

[Gaspare]

I would have to agree this looks like one of the Dachau produced items. But IMHO not issued to the unit. Yes there are a few photos of this tab in wear but the actual size looks totally different to me than the Dachau pieces. Also , I know a old timer in Ukraine that swears he was in a assault group attached to Dirlewanger and he and his guys had black tabs with a crude off white X stiched on them....The actual tabs from the period photos ? Locally made? , made in small quantity at one of the other KLs or POW camps futher east? ,,yes I know . . , G.

[Robin Lumsden]

During research for one of my books I made a note from a source (stupidly haven't recorded what it was) to the effect that the Dirlewanger tab was chosen by Himmler from 4 proposed designs for this unit and was confirmed as being introduced by an SS order dated 26th January 1943. It was also used by SS-Bewaerungsverbaende (Probation Unit) 500 (Dora II) in 1944-45.

[Basil]

The 'crossed rifles and grenade' patch was introduced for the SS-Sonderbataillon Dirlewanger on 29 January 1943 and a number of photos show it in wear by the unit's recce company in mid-43. These pictures appear to show a slighly different patch to the well-known Dachau pattern, with 'thicker' and better detailed rifles and grenades. A German dealer had one of these earlier pattern tabs for sale on his website about three or four years ago - unfortunately I missed it, though I do have a copy of the pictures somewhere.

There are pictures of the Dachau pattern tab being worn during the suppression of the Warsaw Uprising in 1944, as well as extant 'worn' examples, so at least some got into circulation, and this is probably why it is not as common as some of the other Dachau patches which almost certainly weren't worn, like the Italian and RONA divisional insignia.

It's worth noting that the crossed rifles patch was not for the 36. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS, but specifically for the Sonderbataillon (and regiment and brigade) Dirlewanger. The 36 Division was cobbled together from a variety of formations - including an Army grenadier regiment, Stug detachment and artillery unit, and an entire recent course from the SS-Junkerschule Braunschweig as platoon and company leaders - using the HQ of the Sturmbrigade Dirlewanger as the divisional HQ (and Brif. Schmedes as commander) and the rest of the Sturmbrigade as an infantry regiment. When the 36 Division was formed, the probationary and 'Wehrunwurdig' (unworthy of military service) members of the Dirlewanger formation who had previous military service were deemed to be 'rehabilitated'. By then, the poachers who had originally formed the unit were either dead or were members of the senior NCO cadre and had long since been rehabilitated.

The rationale of the special tab was that members of the Sonderkommando were not fit to wear SS runes but from photos it appears that many continued to do so, along with Totenkopf patches and, in many cases, no collar insignia at all. Interestingly, political prisoners who were inducted into the unit wore red-piped shoulder boards to distinguish them from criminal and disciplinary cases who wore the standard infantry white.

As to 'SS-Bewährungsverband 500' wearing the crossed rifles patch, I have my doubts. I am not sure if this unit really existed outside the imagination of Frithjof Elmo-Porsch, alias Ingo Petersen. The photographs which exist of him wearing the patch on both sides of the collar are certainly post-war, and many of his claims about his own exploits are disputed. Certainly the societies for Knight's Cross and Nahkampfspange in Gold recipients do not recognise his claim to have received these awards. His SS personal file, which I have a copy of, doesn't mention any decorations at all.

[JOHN VD HEIJDEN]

re

I also find this tab okkeeey