Rare Double-armed cross group photo

[para03]

Here are some close-ups that I was able to get with my scanner...sorry about the quality on some but that was the best I could do under the forum guidlines...
Enjoy!

-Chuck

[SgtB]

Chuck,
... I wonder if any of them were thinking about what would happen when the allies got there...
Fred

Well by the looks of a few of them, they could've donned some striped
pajama's and crawled home, no questions asked!

Super job, Chuck! An endlessly fascinating photo. Notice that many
of the men wearing breast eagles also wear SS beltbuckles and many
wearing sleeve eagles are wearing Heer buckles. Tell me that doesn't
defy all logic!!!

[Gary Wood]

"Super job, Chuck! An endlessly fascinating photo. Notice that many
of the men wearing breast eagles also wear SS beltbuckles and many
wearing sleeve eagles are wearing Heer buckles. Tell me that doesn't
defy all logic!!!"

I second that, also some appear to be wearing army straps as well, I would bet also if someone offered these items in wear in the photo for sale today they would all be deemed non regulation (which they are) or messed about with or fakes.
cheers,
Gary

[para03]

Thank you all for the compliments. Not only do I continually learn something new with this photo, I learn how to operate my scanner as well! The original is of course clearer than the scans. I tried to get the best picture possible and ended up with what you see posted here. On a little side note...I know this photo is quite unique and I love sharing it with you all, but PLEASE obtain my consent if you were to use it in a publication. Thank you! With that said...I'd love to hear any opnions about this image. Your input so far has been a valuable learning experience. Thanks!

-Chuck

Chuck,

Thanks so much for taking the time to make all of those scans. Threads like this one are what makes this forum great.

Check out the odd looking skull on the overseas cap in post #29.

Regards,

Fred

[Robin Lumsden]

That's undoubtedly one of the best pictures I've seen on the forum so far.

[para03]

Once again, thanks Robin and Fred. Can anyone tell me what type of cap eagle the guy in post #19 is wearing? Looks cloth and maybe even SS? Or is it Army? I know the detail is not really there but it appears there's enough to make an educated guess. How about the skull device being worn by the guy in #22 & 23?

-Chuck

[kampfer]

Great Photo!!

Notice on some of the uniforms of men with SS sleeve eagles one can clearly see a 'ghost' image of where his army breast eagle once was previously. They must still be wearing their old well worn army uniforms, but have removed the army breast eagle and sewed on an SS sleeve eagle. Great Stuff.
Thanks for posting it for us.

Martin K

[para03]

Thank you Martin. Here's another little tidbit...notice the 2 different positions of the Totenkopf collar patches in posting #28?

-Chuck

Member JRA just posted a wehrpass grouping on the estand with this pic:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...8&page=1&pp=15
Regards,
Fred

[Ian Hulley]

My God it's a young Enoch Powell ! That explains a lot !

Seriously though,great pics! Were there any 'hard and fast' regulations about the waffenfarbe on these ad-hoc guard units,the guy pictured in the last pic is clearly wearing the double swastika tab but with what appears to be white waffenfarbe,you'd have thought if they got the new uniform and tabs to them the straps would be the 'correct' KL brown colour ?

Ian

[gew98]

d

Brian,
There's another interesting aspect to the uniform being worn by the soldier you pointed out sitting in the middle row, 3rd from right. He has a double-armed swastika collar tab with an SS sleeve eagle??? Correct me if I'm wrong but according to my reference books, this should not be! The double-armed collar tab was issued to all full-time concentration camp guards who were transfered in from the Wehrmacht, SA, Werkschutz or basically any non-SS organization. This might explain why several uniforms have the Wehrmacht breast eagles and double-armed cross tabs. So why the SS sleeve eagle? Also looks like he's wearing a field cap with a standard Army eagle and tricolour cockade? Can't be sure of that though as the shadows may be playing tricks on me. The guy sitting in the front row, first from left also has the double armed tab with SS sleeve eagle. It is also interesting to note that this same guy has a field cap with one piece of insignia, a metal skull instead of a cloth variation. It's like Robin said, it re-writes history. It just reaffirms my notion that not all things are set in stone. Let me see what I can do about getting close-ups. The problem is you lose the fine detail when posting the image because of the small file size.
-Chuck

P3 ; I do recall reading in a couple books - one of them I am sure was "Ordinary Men" ( Resrve Police battalion 101 and the final solution in Poland ) by Chirs Browning. There are accounts of reserve SS and reserve polizei being all meshed together in these 'activated for active service units with all manner of uniform differences with no push to make them all conform uniform wise. And some where they got to the point of being transferred to the SS kept as much of their wehrmacht insignia and uniform as was possible to differentiate themselves from the SS rank and file they were forced into. So oddities such as these period pics present don't seem all that strange to me from what I have read.
Somewhere I also recall reading and seeing interviews of jewsih camp survivors where a senior wehrmacht man was put in to the SS and made head of their camp.That man did all he could to avoid SS uniform and insignia that he could.He was so humane to his prisoners the SS admin were serious about removing him but could not get their ducks in line to get their wish.