and the studio image before he was transfered to camp duty. I believe he's the same soldier sitting in the middle row, second from right. Has the word "Bruder" or brother written on back.
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Last edited by para03; 01-05-2006, 03:56 PM. -
Hello all! Here is my first post to the group. I figured that members of this thread would enjoy this rare photo showing a motley collection of SS uniforms. Of particular interest is the double-armed swastika collar tabs being worn by some of the soldiers (sorry about the glare). I believe the guy in the middle row, second from right, is the same soldier depicted in the studio image below. Unfortunately, there's no description on back.
-ChuckLast edited by para03; 01-05-2006, 03:56 PM. -
Chuck,
Very interesting picture. There are quite a few army breast eagles showing there - are all of those men wearing the double armed cross?
Regards,
FredComment
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chuck,
Very interesting photo, thanks for sharing it with us
, is it possible to enlarge sections of the photo? as it looks like some of the breast eagles have been moved to the sleeve
cheers,
GaryComment
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Fred,
There are Totenkopf collar tabs, SS tabs, double armed cross tabs...and SS tabs with Army breast eagles
? Strange...very, very strange....
Gary,
Which part do you want me to zero in on? I can give it the ole' College try....
I gotta step away from the computer for a little while...will be able to respond later today.
-Chuck
Originally posted by fldjrComment
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A really excellent and rare photo! Another one that 're-writes the textbooks'. Thanks for posting.
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Excellent photo! I could study that for hours. Notice how low the
pockets are on the man in the middle row, 3rd from right - strange
tunic. Also notice the man in the back row, 2nd from left. Nice tall
Aryan superman, there!
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I agree Brian, and look at the headwear as well, it would be nice to see a high res of the photoOriginally posted by Brian BoniniExcellent photo! I could study that for hours. Notice how low the
pockets are on the man in the middle row, 3rd from right - strange
tunic. Also notice the man in the back row, 2nd from left. Nice tall
Aryan superman, there!
I know there are size constraints on the forum so if you could scan it in sections that would be great,
cheers,
GaryComment
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in fact the guy 3rd in from the left on the back row looks like Jones from "dad's army"
cheers,
GaryComment
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Brian,
There's another interesting aspect to the uniform being worn by the soldier you pointed out sitting in the middle row, 3rd from right. He has a double-armed swastika collar tab with an SS sleeve eagle??? Correct me if I'm wrong but according to my reference books, this should not be! The double-armed collar tab was issued to all full-time concentration camp guards who were transfered in from the Wehrmacht, SA, Werkschutz or basically any non-SS organization. This might explain why several uniforms have the Wehrmacht breast eagles and double-armed cross tabs. So why the SS sleeve eagle? Also looks like he's wearing a field cap with a standard Army eagle and tricolour cockade? Can't be sure of that though as the shadows may be playing tricks on me. The guy sitting in the front row, first from left also has the double armed tab with SS sleeve eagle. It is also interesting to note that this same guy has a field cap with one piece of insignia, a metal skull instead of a cloth variation. It's like Robin said, it re-writes history. It just reaffirms my notion that not all things are set in stone. Let me see what I can do about getting close-ups. The problem is you lose the fine detail when posting the image because of the small file size.
-Chuck
Originally posted by Brian BoniniExcellent photo! I could study that for hours. Notice how low the
pockets are on the man in the middle row, 3rd from right - strange
tunic. Also notice the man in the back row, 2nd from left. Nice tall
Aryan superman, there! Last edited by para03; 08-22-2004, 01:28 PM.Comment
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Chuck,
Robin's Waffen SS book has 2 pictures of men wearing that tab, one is wearing an SS sleeve eagle, and the other probably is (the photo only shows the lack of a breast eagle). He notes that there were only 3 known photos of this tab in wear. I guess your's makes 4!
Do you have the man's name? Or is there anything written on the back of the photo - perhaps it would be possible to find out what KZ it was.
It really is a fascinating picture - I wonder if any of them were thinking about what would happen when the allies got there...
Regards,
FredComment
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Here is my tab, it came out of a vet's scrapbook. The backing is a white woven cloth, rather than a buckram.Comment
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.Comment
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The double-armed swastika was definitely worn with the SS arm eagle.
On 11th May 1944, 10,000 old/unfit soldiers were transferred from the Wehrmacht to guard 200,000 Jews moved from the east to be employed in Germany on construction and armaments work. Himmler initially ordered that these men should wear a collar patch with a 'W' (Wache) to distinguish them from 'real' SS men. Pohl argued that some of the men were volunteers and should wear the TK patch. Himmler was adamant that there should be a strict distinction for these men and on 27th June 1944 introduced the double-armed swastika patch for them. Himmler designed the badge himself.
Furthermore, Himmler ordered that for the duration of the war, ALL staff at Concentration Camps were to wear the new swastika patch. The TK patch could be worn by camp veterans in the short-term, until replaced by the swastika. Most TK camp vets ignored this order and wore their death's heads until the capitulation.Comment
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I used Robin's book as a reference on several occasions. Thanks for a handy book Robin . I obtained these images from a dealer in Germany several years ago. Unfortunately, he didn't have any info on them (nor did I ask). It's also unfortunate that there's no description on the reverse of the group image. The larger studio portrait has more information on back than I previously thought (see scan below). Can anyone translate this one for me? I can do the simple stuff like "My Brother".
Fred, one can only wonder what was going through their minds. A couple do have a apprehensive look, some just look dog tired and a few are smiling probably for the last time....
Does anyone have a suggestion on how to go about posting a higher resolution photo? I'm using a 5 mega pixel camera set to the highest resolution possible.
Originally posted by fldjrComment
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