Cast visor eagle and skull ?

[all1knew]

Hello all,

Is this a cast set? They have a pillow crimp reverse setup.

William Kramer

[all1knew]

2

[Helbe]

I think the skull is good. But you should take a front picture of the eagle and skull to be sure.

[bwanek1]

I think the skull is good. But you should take a front picture of the eagle and skull to be sure.

Don't waste your time taking additional pictures. These are both well known fakes.

[Ian Hulley]

Immediately obvious fakes which would have shown up in a search

I think the skull is good.

Ian

[Helbe]

my bad. I'm still learning too.

[realone]

Yes both bad,,the skull is a known 360/42 fake and I cant see a MM on the eagle but it shows like a fake from the pics,,IMO

Greg

[all1knew]

Yes both bad,,the skull is a known 360/42 fake and I cant see a MM on the eagle but it shows like a fake from the pics,,IMO

Greg

360/42, thank you - I couldn't make it out in the photo.

Are these cast reproductions of anything original though?

William Kramer

[realone]

Hi William,,Im not sure, but from talking to SS dealers at the shows over the years I think there not a known maker, but then again these were to have come from Austria back sometime in the 1980s, I believe the book by Kit Wilson even says that, but I would shy away from that number just the same,,

I sold a set eagle/skull with the 360/42 on etsand as a fake set,,it did go fast

Regards
Greg

[Winkelman]

Are these cast reproductions of anything original though?

William Kramer

Not cast , but die-struck as a new ( thus wrong ) design some 30 years ago .
Around the same time the 380/40 skulls appeared - a friend of mine bought both as reproductions at the time .
The name that keeps popping up is Herr Floch , who was indeed responsible for a lot of other mayhem in the insignia / medals field ..

[PMan]

Set

360/42, thank you - I couldn't make it out in the photo.

Are these cast reproductions of anything original though?

William Kramer

No, they are total creations of nothing that existed previously. All of the collecting community owned a set / sets of these during the early 70's. They cost $25 for the pair back then. Since then, they have been moved on to somewhere else.

[Helbe]

If these are know fakes, I would be interested to own them for study. Do you know where I can get at least one skull ? For how much can we get them ?

[SScollector]

Well, I'm sure that some people think it is ridiculous to collect fakes, but I do, and it is essential for learning. You could be surprised at how good some fakes look.

Anyway, every now and then, you can find these on the e-stand or at places like Manion's. I picked up a set at a small military show a couple years ago. They usually sell for around $100.00 for a set. As for the skulls, there are actually two types that are completely different. The "360/" marked aluminum skulls resemble the Assmann skulls, (new dies however), and the "380/" marked aluminum skulls resemble the "S.P.40" skulls, (again, new dies).

Anyway, the eagles are just as well made and are just as nice as any original eagle, (even though they have different characteristics).

One more thing, these eagles can have either, straight lines through the feathers, or curved lines. Apparently, they changed up some things a few times. Also, they can sometimes be marked "M1/17" which is of course a legit marking and therefore, they are a bit more dangerous and can be found in CupAl, (or a CupAl look-a-like material).
Just be careful not to mistakenly buy a cast set, because oddly enough, they do make cast fakes of these die struck fakes, but they are much
less in quality.

Hope this helps!

Chris

[Helbe]

The better way to recognize fakes is to own them, IMO it's the best way to identify them. Many thanks for your infos ! I'll look on e-stand if I find one.