Very, very rare allgemeine SS "LAH " Boards!

[Valentino]

I am sure you can you do a Search on the WAF ? this cypher is brass/ copper and then silvered so call it what you like ?????

Please forgive me , but my english seems not good enough. In the article I can read that two versions of early LAH Cyphers exisits. But I cant figure out where the difference is, because of my bad english...

[jimt]

Please forgive me , but my english seems not good enough. In the article I can read that two versions of early LAH Cyphers exisits. But I cant figure out where the difference is, because of my bad english...

My apologies , the gilt cypher which appeared for the field grey blouse is of a slightly different pattern than this first version which is done in the cupal or old silver or whatever you want to call it ? so the difference is in the finish and also in a slightly different cypher format , much like what has been posted by Mr Haack , this pattern was for the field grey officers blouse , the only know example that I have seen and was completely sure of was in the Mollo collection circa 1989 . In the early 1990's a silvered first pattern appeared which was very close but the pins where made incorrectly ( I did not look really close for other discrepancies) this to my knowledge was the the best copy.

[DKNYC71]

You dont answer my question... I want to know why you are sure that the cypher you show us is in cupal, brass? and What do you think is my cypher?

With all due respect, It is very clear that the version which Jim Toncar posted is night and day different from the version which you had posted. Furthermore, I think you can be sure that Jim Toncar's opinion is probably the best you can ever hope to have on the subject matter. If Jim took the time and effort to illustrate his point as he did, you can be 100% sure that your cypher is most likely a reproduction.

[Valentino]

With all due respect, It is very clear that the version which Jim Toncar posted is night and day different from the version which you had posted. Furthermore, I think you can be sure that Jim Toncar's opinion is probably the best you can ever hope to have on the subject matter. If Jim took the time and effort to illustrate his point as he did, you can be 100% sure that your cypher is most likely a reproduction.

So you say that my pieces are Fantasy chypers because they differ in the Form the letters are ?

[DKNYC71]

So you say that my pieces are Fantasy chypers because they differ in the Form the letters are ?

I am merely pointing out that a VERY educated and knowledgeable opinion has been rendered pertaining to your cyphers. Whether fantasy or reproduction is a simple matter of semantics. Most folks in the collecting community had never handled an original early LAH cypher, you received an opinion from Jim Toncar, who is one of the most advanced and knowledgeable individuals in the world community on SS material. Jim further kindly provided an original example to compare (certainly a treat for me and other I am sure) and he provided an article on the subject matter. If that is not enough for you to determine authenticity of your cyphers, I could not imagine any better input for you to rely upon.

It the end, you are the only person that has to be happy with your cyphers, so if you are comfortable in knowing your cyphers are original, CONGRATULATIONS! Since a real cypher of this pattern is indeed ultra ultra rare, and most people would probably never have a chance to acquire an original example for their collection.

[maestro]

i can see the difference better always by comparison

[maestro]

..and the other comparison..
the Font is different on Valentino's in both comparisons

[maestro]

backside comparisons of Jim's vs Valentino's

[Valentino]

Now Both pieces are Sold to Helmut Weitze. I think you will find them in One of his next updates.

[djpool]

Seems strange that Valentinos ciphers are so different from Toncars. Generally speaking reproductions try to mimic original examples, usually by using an original example as a mold. Valentinos seem well made. This is a general comment and isn't a statement on the originality of the cipher.

[SJP]

IMHO 2 one lookers .....original & fake.

Thanks for posting Jim
__________________________________________
Cheers Steve

[Fritz]

IMHO 2 one lookers .....original & fake.

Thanks for posting Jim
__________________________________________
Cheers Steve

Long board fake, short board good? Or?

[Robert H]

I agree with Jim's statement. One importand thing is the pin style and I know only of one style for such cyphers.

So possible some nice fakes getting new pins ...

[djpool]

according to the Bender book on the LAH there were two styles. The one Mr Toncar shows and also the same style shown by Valentino. I know, don't believe the reference books, but it would be easier to dismiss Valentinos ciphers if they weren't actually produced. Obviousily the big boys disagree.

[PMan]

Valentino cyphers

Yeah, it seems like the fakers went to great lengths to make Valentinos cyphers much different so they could be easily detected.