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    #16
    Originally posted by addo View Post
    If they make you feel uncomfortable from 179425 why not from 176500 from when it was reported to HH, Lakesidetrader has the SS stickpin number 184884 for sale for $700 does that make it Fake?

    Thank You
    Regards
    Ado
    The report to Himmler's office gave the breakdown of production for Hoffstatter and Gahr. We don't know in what order the two companies produced pins. We only know that a total of the two - 179425 - was the highest number that could have been produced. Hoffstatter could have made it or Gahr.

    I am only outlining the facts regarding these pins. I wrote that I continue to search for documentation that production continued. I have evidence that many badges were returned by SS units for reissue at later date. I know that ZA # 172913 was issued to a man admitted to the SS in April 1939. Only a few months later, applications for the ZA were cancelled and production halted. So, I have good reason to state that acquiring these higher numbered badges requires an act of faith.

    Comment

      #17
      Originally posted by JoeW View Post
      The report to Himmler's office gave the breakdown of production for Hoffstatter and Gahr. We don't know in what order the two companies produced pins. We only know that a total of the two - 179425 - was the highest number that could have been produced. Hoffstatter could have made it or Gahr.

      I am only outlining the facts regarding these pins. I wrote that I continue to search for documentation that production continued. I have evidence that many badges were returned by SS units for reissue at later date. I know that ZA # 172913 was issued to a man admitted to the SS in April 1939. Only a few months later, applications for the ZA were cancelled and production halted. So, I have good reason to state that acquiring these higher numbered badges requires an act of faith.
      Joe,

      Because of one doc?. This is silly and there could be any number of reasons for this I would imagine. The pins correspond in every way shape and form whether they are 125,000 or 180,000. So they ran batch runs like they did with everything else.

      No disrespect Joe but I watch the academics in many cases using data that suits them one way and then casting doubt when it does not apply to them. There are enough issues with market that I do not think we need to cast doubt on good pieces because of their numbering system knowing how the German's manufactured things in many cases.

      Kris

      Comment

        #18
        Kris,

        My ZA file is about 3 or 4 inches thick with original qualifications for the ZA, lists of lost ZA badges, SS officer cards with ZA numbers, and the several pages of correspondence with Himmler's staff regarding the silver supply, ZA badges, the manufacturers, TK rings and SS sword fittings. You can theorize all you want. I really don't give a rat's a ss.!

        You analogy is certainly disrespectful if you liken my research to the scholarship of global warming proponents. I am not trying to sell anything, nor asking anyone to believe me. I am only stating the facts. These facts were repeated elsewhere. It is just a matter of collectors relying on the web and not actually bothering to read the material that has been around for decades.
        Last edited by JoeW; 04-04-2012, 01:33 PM.

        Comment

          #19
          Originally posted by JoeW View Post
          Kris,

          My ZA file is about 3 or 4 inches thick with original qualifications for the ZA, lists of lost ZA badges, SS officer cards with ZA numbers, and the several pages of correspondence with Himmler's staff regarding the silver supply, ZA badges, the manufacturers, TK rings and SS sword fittings. You can theorize all you want. I really don't give a rat's a ss.!

          You analogy is certainly disrespectful if you liken my research to the scholarship of global warming proponents. I am not trying to sell anything, nor asking anyone to believe me. I am only stating the facts. These facts were repeated elsewhere. It is just a matter of collectors relying on the web and not actually bothering to read the material that has been around for decades.
          Joe,

          Not meant to be disrespectful by any means, thought I was clear about that. The pieces conform in all respects as stated whether the number is lower or higher. Germans ran batch runs and a firm such as Hoffstetter could certainly run an order over with numbers before they got the order to cease.

          The fact that silver was not used past a certain date is irrelevent (sic) as the Hoffstetter's were not silver, and with Gahr irrelevent (sic) as they seemed to get around it anyway and that is common knowledge.

          You want to look at documents and that is fine, but in many cases they do not tell the story and are inconclusive or incomplete and looking at the pieces is where you need to be. You want to focus on docs and that is fine and in many cases quite helpful, you want to piss on stick pins because you do not have a doc to explain them and that is another. Look at the pins. And its not your research I am looking at in particular and my comment was general in nature and based on arguments I see in general. So do not got all riled up but I do not care how big the file is and I do not think there is any reason to cast doubt on these pieces for lack of a document for an issue that could easily explained by thinking off a document.

          Best,

          Kris

          Comment

            #20
            Me riled up? Surely you jest.

            So let's burn all the books and documentation and fly by the seat of our pants. You can make up explanations as you go along. I am not pissing on anyone's stick pin because I don't have a document to explain them. I have a document that denies them. There is a big difference to me. And I am still trying to learn more.

            Comment

              #21
              I - and many others here as well, I guess - am still trying to learn more as well.

              Please feel free to post that specific document here.

              Comment

                #22
                I would like to see this document....

                Comment

                  #23
                  Originally posted by JoeW View Post
                  Me riled up? Surely you jest.

                  So let's burn all the books and documentation and fly by the seat of our pants. You can make up explanations as you go along. I am not pissing on anyone's stick pin because I don't have a document to explain them. I have a document that denies them. There is a big difference to me. And I am still trying to learn more.
                  Joe,

                  It does not deny them, it says so many produced. It does not say how they were numbered, where the numbers started, number blocks, nor does it state how many are sitting on the factory shelf. It simply says amount produced. So what?.

                  I am sure there are a couple book's worth tossing in the fire when it comes to this hobby, I will give that some consideration and get back to you.

                  Best,

                  Kris

                  Comment

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