Where were 'tropical' W-SS sleeve eagles used?

[Peter R.]

Were they issued to W-SS fighting in the southern Russia or the Balkans, since I don't think the W-SS had any involvement in Africa?

And, why do they seem to be less expensive than the standard sleeve eagle?

It's all quite puzzling to a new collector. Is there a book that could be considered the equivalent to the Williamson book on EK's for W-SS ephemera/insignia, so I don't have to ask stupid questions ?

Cheers,
Peter

[Robin Lumsden]

Were they issued to W-SS fighting in the southern Russia or the Balkans, since I don't think the W-SS had any involvement in Africa?

And, why do they seem to be less expensive than the standard sleeve eagle?

It's all quite puzzling to a new collector. Is there a book that could be considered the equivalent to the Williamson book on EK's for W-SS ephemera/insignia, so I don't have to ask stupid questions ?

Cheers,
Peter

They were primarily used in Italy, the balkans and southern Russia.
Try the site below for some half-decent books on the SS and its regalia.

[ReichsHeini]

Try LTC John Angolia's Cloth Insignia of the SS which is one of the older and better books on this area. You can search Ebay and find a copy usually.
Another would be the Andrew Mollo series on the SS and Mr. Lumsden has a few books on the subject too!

My guess is, the prices of tropical sleeve eagles are less than the standard bevo enlisted only because there were larger quantities of these tropicals found in un-used condition and they were not used as frequently on WSS tunics, making them less desirable.
Jerry

[Sven Masch]

As Robin said, mostly they had be worn in italy.
Here´s a photo out of my collection where you can see the tropical eagle on a uniform of a member of the 16. SS-Panzergren. Div. "Reichsführer SS".

[Robin Lumsden]

Sven.

That's a nice picture.

The first time I've actually seen the RfSS title on a tropical tunic.

Thanks for posting.

[Gary Wood]

and do not forget Greece and AFRICA, now the latter will have you thinking

cheers,
Gary
Photo below 4th SS

[Peter R.]

and do not forget Greece and AFRICA, now the latter will have you thinking

You're right there! Is that photo from Africa? What/how/why/where was the Waffen SS deployed in Africa? I'm intrigued! I've read a few books about the Afrika Korps history and Rommel's bio, and don't recall any word there about W-SS troops being involved. Maybe the writers were too concerned with sticking to their topic and strictly speaking I guess W-SS probably were not officially Afrika Korps guys, and Rommel's most famous W-SS involvement was in France.

Or were they part of a pre-war expedition, like a grown ups verison of a HJ camping trip

Feel free to enlighten us, I can't be the only person to be wondering about this?

P.S. Thanks for the book suggestions - I'll get reading. Robin - I actually bought your 'Detecting the Fakes' book a few months ago in Melbourne! I'm pretty sure that store carries a few of your titles.

[ChrisB]

and do not forget Greece and AFRICA, now the latter will have you thinking

cheers,
Gary
Photo below 4th SS

Hello Gary,

Are you referring to the SS Einsatzkommando Tunis? I have not heard of any other SS units being used in the African Theatre so would be interested in hearing what other units might have been out there.
Cheers
Chris

[Gary Wood]

Chris,
you pretty well hit the nail on the head, some of the ref. works state no ss troops in the African Theatre, Here is a picture of SD troops in Tunis which is Africa
cheers,
Gary

[Robin Lumsden]

The SD unit in Tunis was known to have worn tropical gear, but only a few staff were stationed there. The SD had outposts across occupied Europe and North Africa. The Tunis SD was commanded by SS-Staf. Walther Rauff - whose main claim to fame (apart from holding the German Cross in Gold AND the German Cross in Silver) was that he 'invented' the gassing vans used shortly after the invasion of Russia. He was also a reserve naval officer, and the only man I know of who wore the 'Afrika' cuff title with SD uniform.

[Gary Wood]

#2

[Jeremy Chan]

Just to clarify some stuff. Tropical uniform was worn not just in Nord Afrika, but in those theatres in and around the Mediterranean; Southern France, Italy, Greece and parts of Yugoslavia (I think) and also some parts of southern Russia. Rommel hated the SS and made sure no SS, Waffen-SS or other, set foot in North Africa. But this SD unit Chris, Gary and Robin mentioned seems to be the only one there. And the 1.SS-Panzer-Division "Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler", the 2.SS-Panzer-Division "Das Reich" and the 16.SS-Panzergrenadier division "Reichsführer-SS" were the only Waffen-SS units in Italy, I think.
Gary, the guy on the right of your pic wears a Sam Browne belt. I've seen photos of some DAK officers wearing them. How did they acquire them? Off Italian officers?
Robin, I'm curious as to the identity of this SD unit. What was their purpose or role in Africa? Is there any more info on that unit?
Cheers,
Jeremy

[Robin Lumsden]

Just to clarify some stuff. Tropical uniform was worn not just in Nord Afrika, but in those theatres in and around the Mediterranean; Southern France, Italy, Greece and parts of Yugoslavia (I think) and also some parts of southern Russia. Rommel hated the SS and made sure no SS, Waffen-SS or other, set foot in North Africa. But this SD unit Chris, Gary and Robin mentioned seems to be the only one there. And the 1.SS-Panzer-Division "Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler", the 2.SS-Panzer-Division "Das Reich" and the 16.SS-Panzergrenadier division "Reichsführer-SS" were the only Waffen-SS units in Italy, I think.
Gary, the guy on the right of your pic wears a Sam Browne belt. I've seen photos of some DAK officers wearing them. How did they acquire them? Off Italian officers?
Robin, I'm curious as to the identity of this SD unit. What was their purpose or role in Africa? Is there any more info on that unit?
Cheers,
Jeremy

Jeremy.
The SD unit was not 'SD proper' but SIPO (security police). In the occupied territories, security police men were allowed to wear SD uniform, whether or not they were members of the SD or even of the SS. This was to afford them a measure of protection in wartime, where their usual garb (civilian clothes) would have exposed them to all sorts of dangers, not least from their own side! The duties of the SIPO (which comprised both the Gestapo and the Kripo) included intelligence gathering and taking executive action against 'subversive elements' - i.e. arresting political opponents, potential saboteurs, etc. etc. The Kripo side was more numerous staffing-wise and investigated serious crime such as murder, rape, etc. So the chances are that the SD man pictured in tropical gear above was nothing more sinister than a detective in uniform.
Cheers.
Robin.

[Gary Wood]

"the 2.SS-Panzer-Division "Das Reich" and the 16.SS-Panzergrenadier division "Reichsführer-SS" were the only Waffen-SS units in Italy, I think."

Jeremy,
do not forget the 4th ss either :-),
cheers,
Gary

[Paulh]

Pictures

Gary,


Super pictures. Thanks for posting them. Great to see the tropical cap with insignia.

Thanks,

Paul