Deutsch Kunstler und die SS and conservation

[Minnesinger]

Pricey or not you did the right thing preserving it for the future. It's a super piece and a rare one to boost. I'm happy for you and more than a bit envious.

[Gaspare]

yes that would have browned out and chipped to pieces. Great job!

[Thorsten B.]

Very well done.

Michael,

To your comment 11: This symbol is the traditional crest for the guild of painters (including other branches of creative arts) in the Heiliges Römisches Reich deutscher Nation - one of the earliest documents bearing that symbol dates from 1350 in the southern city of Freiburg.

More info here:

http://www.heraldik-wappen.de/viewtopic.php?p=6073

[Richard P]

yes that would have browned out and chipped to pieces. Great job!

I had a roommate that "browned out" at the 2010 SOS...I think it was the "B" rated Vietnamese food that we ate.

Wonderful restoration job, I have seen hundreds of WWI - WWII posters restored and conserved...tip top job! Congratulations!

Richard

[Etienne B.]

Job well done Never saw this poster before!

[Vid]

Especially for me : as I appreciate just what this poster represented.
Not NSDAP ideology and Kunst, no...this is somthing pointedly more intense...SS Kunst.
Where SS ideology and propaganda art became one.

I am not sure how to read this, I think I understand where your at but also think it is entirely more complicated than that. I think the pointed aspect is the term "propaganda". If you were to erase that word it makes more sense.

The SS was certainly a derivative of the NSDAP, so the ideology in the end in social form is really the same, its National Socialism. At what point does art stop being art and become propaganda?, or vice versa. I think to use the term is o.k, trying to draw a distinct line however is not always so simple.

I could essentially point to any work of art and see propaganda of some kind whether it be here today or in Germany in 1943, or in any other land at any given time. I am thinking propaganda is the key generic term and the ideology is more of the social fabric which influences the art, while the influences may be stronger they are inevitably older than a short nationalist regime and I think the statement is too focused to a period as opposed to a culture.

Anyway, nice poster and have never seen that before, I like it and nice job.

Kris

[Thorsten B.]

Interesting and important points:

What really is SS art?

Is it different from the general NS ideology?

If so: how and in which way?

For whom did the exhibited artists work?

Who admired, exhibited, bought, engaged and supported these artists in question?

There´s a lot to take into account and discussion.

One thing is obvious to me: The SS was far more than a branch/part of the NSDAP.

It was itself and not for everybody.

[Vid]

I am not so sure this is best suited for internet debate, its complicated and no matter how you go at it, its a much bigger equation really. I don't think I want to debate it really as you cant really confine it or generalize it.

Kris

[Thorsten B.]

Never say never in this hobby.

There´s a lot of interest and market potential in this field of collecting!

[ErichS]

Great job Michael and I'm sure well worth the expense to preserve an important piece of history.

[N.C. Wyeth]

I am not so sure this is best suited for internet debate, its complicated and no matter how you go at it, its a much bigger equation really. I don't think I want to debate it really as you cant really confine it or generalize it.

Kris

Hello Kris - so why is this [subject] not suited for internet debate? How "big" is the equation? Why is it so difficult for you to confine and generalize - is it that you have such a better understanding, that many of us could not be expected to comprehend? I am curious for why you would answer in such a way, "dangling the carrot", so-to-speak - and yet not care to explain your reason for such a reply? Are you fearful for something? Why be afraid - we all come here for knowledge, and nothing more, right? I for one would like to know more about that of which you elude to . . . I think information behind the idealogy of culture and art related to this poster would be enjoyable for all of us - please, do tell!

P.S. Nice job on the restoration - I bet that required a bucket of cash . . . but a well-done job, worthy of the subject at hand . . .

[Vid]

Hello Kris - so why is this [subject] not suited for internet debate? How "big" is the equation? Why is it so difficult for you to confine and generalize - is it that you have such a better understanding, that many of us could not be expected to comprehend? I am curious for why you would answer in such a way, "dangling the carrot", so-to-speak - and yet not care to explain your reason for such a reply? Are you fearful for something? Why be afraid - we all come here for knowledge, and nothing more, right? I for one would like to know more about that of which you elude to . . . I think information behind the idealogy of culture and art related to this poster would be enjoyable for all of us - please, do tell!

P.S. Nice job on the restoration - I bet that required a bucket of cash . . . but a well-done job, worthy of the subject at hand . . .

N.C,

Its just not for me I don't think, too many things to consider and hard to properly translate them into words on my end. Not claiming any superiority or anything like that just a lack of interest on my part at least at the time I wrote that post. The poster is subjective and Michael is looking hard at it, not so sure I would. Its a nice poster and must be rare but its an indication of alliance of the SS and artisans, cant say that is new really.

Best,

Kris

[N.C. Wyeth]

N.C,

Its just not for me I don't think, too many things to consider and hard to properly translate them into words on my end. Not claiming any superiority or anything like that just a lack of interest on my part at least at the time I wrote that post. The poster is subjective and Michael is looking hard at it, not so sure I would. Its a nice poster and must be rare but its an indication of alliance of the SS and artisans, cant say that is new really.

Best,

Kris

I suppose I am with you to some degree - as much as it would be good to hear more from someone that has made such a topic a "specialty" of personal study, admittedly, the matter at hand does lend itself to becoming a bore for many when discussed in length and minutia . . . your insight would be of great benefit here I think, but I now have a better understanding behind your reasoning for lack of reply in this situation . . .

[Michael Fay]

N.C,

Its just not for me I don't think, too many things to consider and hard to properly translate them into words on my end. Not claiming any superiority or anything like that just a lack of interest on my part at least at the time I wrote that post. The poster is subjective and Michael is looking hard at it, not so sure I would. Its a nice poster and must be rare but its an indication of alliance of the SS and artisans, cant say that is new really.

Best,

Kris

Kris, in an attempt to err on the side of less verbage (somthing I am not usually known for), I think I can address all your points focusing on this quote I take from you:

"...The poster is subjective and Michael is looking hard at it, not so sure I would. Its a nice poster and must be rare but its an indication of alliance of the SS and artisans, cant say that is new really..."

First , I never meant to infer my points on the relations to SS , art and propaganda were in any way "new" or goundbreaking," instead it is what I am interested in.
Second, the poster is advertising an official SS art exhibit . The SS had literature on their own theories on art. And especially on art for themselves. In being art for themselves (the SS) it had every angle possible touched on , from academic art theory to strict doctrinaire Goebbel's style of political meanings to the more mystic and religious type of discussion s which the SS sometimes engaged in and art can always lead to.

And this is my brief answer

[Michael Fay]

photo credits

I was writing as I posted and forgot to give credit to 2 WAF members who posted photos of my poster before I owned it.
in post #1 the image came from WAF member Bootmanager.
In post #2 the image came from WAF member TonyS who had saved it from when it was offered for sale a long time ago (about 10 yrs back-I had actually wanted it then, but it was already sold).
So you can imagine as collectors how I felt when I eventually found that item I wanted long ago.