RFSS Stab Sturmbannführer Shoulderboard?

[Arran]

thats right,but on field tunic?

Sure, on a field tunic (although this tunic is about as "unfield" as a field tunic can get) this is the first time I've observed it. I'd love to think that this tunic originally had a R.u.S-hauptamt cufftitle!

[Richard P]

I have normally seen a Tyr-rune (multi-piece composition or other) mounted by itself on a tunic...not mounted to a backing piece, and then the assembled piece sewn to the tunic.

Richard

[wewelsburg]

Actually this was done,with the extra mounting piece,but on SA/NSDAP with a brown backing.These were popular on the black tunics for SS,maybe the guy just carried that over for pride reasons.Anyhow,even if it was added,it would have been cut from another tunic I think with the grey back cloth,but thats a long stretch.I like it.BTW the Tyr is a good one.
One odd thing though is although waffen SS did wear the Heer eagle,youd think that a RUSHA or SD/Sipo man being such a representation of the core of the SS in a business sense,and not a fighter so to speak wouldnt wear a Wehrmacht eagle,just a note,akin to a A-SS man wearing one,its just TOO representative of the SS.Why would say a rUSHA man want to be tied with the Wehrmacht?makes little sense.Unless he was a former member,or very nostalgic as it seems also with the TYr rune.

[John Pic]

probably because in his mind the national symbol was the national symbol..and who cared except future collectors trying to suppose why every little thread might be where it is without considering the whole picture..oddball tunic but it makes sense and was probably worn by someone in the SS outside of Germany.

[jimt]

boards

I am not familiar with the Rus aspect of these shoulderboards , could someone clarify this position ? Also on my computor these boards look blue for transport? The only Rfss boards I have seen are a light grey color?

[wewelsburg]

Jim tabs here are on a RUSHA TUNIC....a shade of grey.The consensus is they are a different shade than the usual RFSS type{as a whole not just on this example}.They seem a bit darker possibly,see other photos there also.Some dont belive in this tunic,as it could be put together,but I like it,why not just make it a combat tunic if its indeed a put together.Ofcourese more photos are needed and its been there AWHILE,possibly because its not combat,other than not right....Its been said the Odal rune has horizontal running bullion instead of the proper vertical.but Im on the fence with that.
http://www.relicsofthereich.com/viewphoto.php?x=7

[John Pic]

I like this one better than the one in the link you provided...in Angolia's book and one other I have two shades of gray existed one was for the staff of the Reichsfuhrer and the other was for RuSha. Thos board and the other in another thread look dark gray to me not light blue.

[Bobwirtz]

The color of the Waffenfarben looks like Wirtschafts, not RFSS. Before April (effective June) 1942, RFSS was light-gray. After that date, general officers wore light-gray and RFSS staff wore a dark-gray. I would balk at a field tunic with that arrow insignia on it. That was for a leadership school wasn't it? I'm not up on the Allgemeine-SS all that much. I would have been worn on the black uniform, but I doubt a field tunic. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Richard P]

One odd thing though is although waffen SS did wear the Heer eagle,youd think that a RUSHA or SD/Sipo man being such a representation of the core of the SS in a business sense,and not a fighter so to speak wouldnt wear a Wehrmacht eagle,just a note,akin to a A-SS man wearing one,its just TOO representative of the SS.Why would say a rUSHA man want to be tied with the Wehrmacht?makes little sense.Unless he was a former member,or very nostalgic as it seems also with the TYr rune.

I think like John said...that the Heer eagle bothers us purist collectors way more than it did them, with Sepp Dietrich being a good example. A national eagle with a swastika was probably all that mattered to them, the swastika being the most important part of whichever form it takes. Still an interesting tunic, a fun one for an "in hand" look.

Richard

[jimt]

RuS

I can state that Erwin Rossner (HSSPF ) wore the tyr rune on his field grey tunic and also on his tropical tunic in Italy 1944-45, the mounting on a extra piece of cloth was a accepted way of doing this. Just a added note Karl Wolff on his field grey overcoat wore the ty-rune, circa 1938 . I wish I was at my Home computer, those boards give me concerns but that may just be my computer, to me the cut of this tunic is meant signify a earlier SS pattern , to make it up with this pattern insignia is a cheap out wiith maxium profit ?? just thinking out loud , the construction of the ty-rune is a little different than I have seen? I think this one would need a real close up and personal look , and of course "where did it come from" ???
Concerning the relics of reich tunic , diamond it not correct for starters... eagle well ???

[John Pic]

I 100% agree with your assesment Jim. The boards look odd but that piping has not been faked yet correctly I think the color makes them appear strange...and they are IMO dark gray. A good close look is all it needs..I will add why would a faker put that eagle on and they destroy it by denazifying it? I've never seen that done before.

The other one on that website I would not touch simply because I know that that guy has sold other put together items more than once..one with insignia I sold him.

[jimt]

I 100% agree with your assesment Jim. The boards look odd but that piping has not been faked yet correctly I think the color makes them appear strange...and they are IMO dark gray. A good close look is all it needs..I will add why would a faker put that eagle on and they destroy it by denazifying it? I've never seen that done before.

The other one on that website I would not touch simply because I know that that guy has sold other put together items more than once..one with insignia I sold him.

John , In the 1980's a fake opened collared tunic attributed to Richard Hildebrandt had the Swas cut out it the SS eagle wreath , the Dealer said the tunic came from the Family , then the black lite was just starting to be used, the damn thing lit up like a Christmas tree, I was the proud owner, I returned it needless to say . Don't forget a eagle in this condition (on RuS tunic) would sell for less. The Fakers are very , very clever , I cannot say with certainty if this tunic is good or bad but its odd to me it does not have more wear and tear to it also ? among other things .
Jim

[wewelsburg]

I can state that Erwin Rossner (HSSPF ) wore the tyr rune on his field grey tunic and also on his tropical tunic in Italy 1944-45, the mounting on a extra piece of cloth was a accepted way of doing this. Just a added note Karl Wolff on his field grey overcoat wore the ty-rune, circa 1938 . I wish I was at my Home computer, those boards give me concerns but that may just be my computer, to me the cut of this tunic is meant signify a earlier SS pattern , to make it up with this pattern insignia is a cheap out wiith maxium profit ?? just thinking out loud , the construction of the ty-rune is a little different than I have seen? I think this one would need a real close up and personal look , and of course "where did it come from" ???
Concerning the relics of reich tunic , diamond it not correct for starters... eagle well ???

Jim I belive it was you who said the Odal raute was bad in another thread?,Ive seen very few officer versions,in fact 2.Im just curious,is it because of the direction of the bullion wire,or because its a bit sloppy?do you have a good example,or anyone else?Or explain?thanks .

[Richard P]

I think the discussion by Jim and John are perfectly valid, and should cause at the very least, a much closer look at this uniform.

On a more careful examination, the Tyr-rune appears to be made of materials that are used quite often in fake US WWII squadron patches (all made by hand), everything except the field gray backing piece. I have seen way too many fakes made with these same materials, so I don't think it is coincidental. It is always a mix of ribbed silk, cotton embroidery, bullion embroidery, wool, etc. My hackles are now up.

Does anyone have good close-ups of known original Tyr-rune examples they can post?

Richard

[Jon. H]

Thank you very much gentlemen !

Let me know what photos are needed.

Here's another photo of the tyr rune, i personally think it's good.

The rest of the insignia also looks to me to have been there for quite a while. There is no ghost of any army collar tabs, or breast eagle on it.

EDIT: I will contact the previous owner and ask where it came from.

bilde-15.jpg