Opinions on Officer's Sleeve Eagle

[DonC]

Any and all comments appreciated.

Don

[DonC]

More...

[DonC]

Z

[Ludwig]

IMO not original.

[John Pic]

I think it could be an original but made in an unusal way...I havent seen any fakes like it yet and whoever did it used the unterlagen..although Sieders use an unterlagen too. I think it has a chance..does it react at all to UV or does the unterlagen react to U.V. on Sieders the unterlagens slightly react to U.V.

[DonC]

I'll zap it with UV tonight, John.

Don

[Jon. H]

I was informed that the eagle was made in Italy in the late 70s, and that it originally was bought from the guy who made it (as a reproduction of course).

But i was also told the collar tabs (present on this tunic) were authentic, which clearly is wrong

[Ian Hulley]

and whoever did it used the unterlagen...

Hi John, wouldn't the swastika arms imply that an unterlagen wasn't used here as the template of the swastika reached the wreath ?

Ian

[viva_giulio]

copy

[John Pic]

Not necessarily Ian there were originals badly hand embroidered..but you can see the unterlagen on this in the upper arm..not a text book eagle and possibly post war but if it doesnt glow then I would not write it off.

[DonC]

A question form the Great Unwashed Masses - what the Hell is an Unterlagen?

Don

[Felix]

A question form the Great Unwashed Masses - what the Hell is an Unterlagen?

Don

To make hand embroidered insignias look the same "as all produced" a template stamped from thick paper was used. It was placed on top of a sheet of wool or cloth and the workers could execute the wanted insignia in the proper way in order to deviate as little as possible from the desired quality pattern. Standardisation.

The eagle in question bears some resemblance to the so called "Karl Wolff" style of sleeve bullion eagle. Thats the most "crude or wild" eagle embroidered in bullion that I can think of. Even that particular style used an "unterlagen" or a card board paper template to get the repetitions straight. Still we know of original bullion insignias, like SS oficers rune tabs, that looks wild and not symmetrical. Templates were also broken.

As for the eagle in question it is a hard call. I do not know of any common fakes like the one shown, nor do I know any matching original. There are some vital or at least "very common" details on sleeve bullion eagles missing on this one. It does have a very off Swastika s well. (could be for many reasons)

Nor bless or dismiss, but I would not have bought it, unless straight from the WW2 vet. In the end you got to be happy with what you buy, and think about that one day you need to sell it as well.

//Felix

[DonC]

Thanks, Felix.

Don

[Ian Hulley]

Not necessarily Ian there were originals badly hand embroidered..but you can see the unterlagen on this in the upper arm..not a text book eagle and possibly post war but if it doesnt glow then I would not write it off.

Ok, many thanks John.

Ian

[DonC]

I hit the eagle with black light/UV early this morning in a pitch black room. Odd little sparkles on the wings reacted to the light - like little fluorescent dots - maybe 15 or twenty of them - no particular pattern to them - haven't seen that before. Also, this specimen does have an Unterlagen under the embroidery (now that I know what Unterlagen is).

Don