There already was one{a serious discussion}.Black breeches never had light brown piping.Thats why you arent getting any other responses to the positive,they arent in photos,books or period documents,or pricelists.You have already been shown postwar breeches with postwar type belt closure which match these,end of serious discussion.
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I have not seen these in hand, but I have to wonder if the breeches in question have been dyed, and the wool piping has taken on that brownish hue. The color, at least to me, does not look uniform throughout the piping.
DonComment
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As already pointed out, you got a serious discussion. Sorry it was not what you wanted to hear. Hell it happened to me when I posted a CT for a friend. Personally I would not get snappy with people who are trying to help you out.Originally posted by bleiburg1945 View PostComment
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in Deutsch:
Fakt ist:
diese Breeches kommt direkt von einem Angehörigen der Wachmannschaften und
nicht aus einer fragwürdigen Sammlung oder Fälscherwerkstätte.
Warum stellte ich diese ins Forum???
Um dazu verschiedene Meinungen zu bekommen und um zu erfahren ob jemand solch ein Stück schon wo gesehen hat oder vielleicht in seiner Sammlung besitzt.
Weitze hatte vor Jahren eine gleiche Breeches zum Verkauf angeboten.
Ich verstehe ihre Zweifel, aber nur weil es nicht in "euren" Büchern steht darf es so was nicht geben.
Was wir Europäischen Sammler feststellen, in vielen amerikanischen Büchern werden Kopien als Originale beschrieben, den Grund dafür kennen wir ja.
Wenn diese Breeches in Amerika als "Kriegsbeute" und "Sammlerstück" auftauchen würde, dann dürfen keine Zweifel über dessen Originalität angemeldet werden. Ich besitze sehr selten Sammler Stücke, halte Kontakt mit seriösen und international bekannten Sammlern und kann auf einer 40-jährige Sammlertätigkeit und Erfahrung zurückgreifen.
Es bestätigt nur meine Meinung, über soche Stücke sollte man in gewissen Foren nicht diskutieren.Comment
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Courtesy of Babelfish translater ...
The fact that Herr Weitze was selling some similar to these would not be considered a positive thing by many.Fact is: this Breeches comes directly from a member of the security guards and not from a doubtful collection or counterfeiter workshop. Why did I place these in the forum??? Over to it different opinions to get and around experience whether someone such a piece already where saw or perhaps in his collection possesses. Weitze had offered a same Breeches years ago for the sale. I understand its doubts, but only because it " not in; euren" For books may not it stands in such a way which not give. Which we determine European collecting tank, in many American books copies are described as originals, the reason for it know we. If this Breeches in America as " Kriegsbeute" and " Sammlerstück" would emerge, then no doubts about its originality may be announced. I possess collecting tanks of pieces very rarely, keep contact with respectable and internationally well-known collecting tanks and can on a 40-jährige collecting tank activity and experience fall back. One should not discuss it confirmed only my opinion, over soche pieces in certain forums.
IanComment
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Free translation (as an outsider I was following the discussion, so I took the liberty to translate, please tell me if I made a mistake somewhere);
"Fact is;
These Breeches have been received directly from a member of the "Wachmannschaften", not from some questionable collection or fakers-factory.
Why do you put it in this forum?
To get different opinions on that, and to see whether others have one in their collection too?
Weitze had one for sale, too, some years ago.
I understand your doubt, but because it's not in 'your' books, doesn't mean it didn't exist.
We European collectors see, that in American books, fakes are commonly described as originals, and we know the reason for that.
When these breeches would pop up in the US as "Kriegsbeute" or "Sammlerstuck", there wouldn't be any question as to the originality. I've got very rare collectionable pieces, keep in touch with serious and internationaly known collectors and am able to rely on 40 years of collecting and experience.
It only strenghtens my opinion, these items shouldn't be discussed in this forum."
Edit:
See someone already put up a Babelfish-translation... Well, twice is better then once ^^ You could call it courtesy of my own translator
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You would probably help your cause if you could show the regulation for these breeches and/or the price list showing them listed for sale. Implied racism against our American friends and colleagues isn't going to help your cause either
IanComment
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Huh? Racism?
Give it a break, man.
Not being textbook makes it even more interesting for me.
Too bad that we hear nothing more about the first owner´s background - yet.
A lot of period things do pop up no one has ever seen or thought about before - that is what makes this hobby and the history so fascinating!
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Originally posted by Thorsten B. View PostSo everything in Europe is good and the evil Americans pretend fakes are real for some mysterious reason ?We European collectors see, that in American books, fakes are commonly described as originals, and we know the reason for that.
When these breeches would pop up in the US as "Kriegsbeute" or "Sammlerstuck", there wouldn't be any question as to the originality.
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Hi Bleiburg- perhaps you can inform us more about your breeches. What year of production/wear would you estimate for these? Do you feel that they are a unique, privately purchased example? Under what circumstances would they have been worn, ie, which form of dress- walking-out? If you can answer these questions it will help us get to the truth of these breeches...Comment
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First off, there is no reason to start an arguement of American vs European collectors, that is not going to get anywhere and it is downright childish. You mention the reference books, if that is the case, then please state some sources to back up the claim regarding these books and where they portray fakes as authentic* then, This is a discussion forum afterall. You mention your credentials as a long time collector, and for that you have my support. I have been in this hobby for a while, not as long as you though. That does however leave me wondering that if you are indeed such the expert, then why did you bring these here for an opinion in the first place?Originally posted by bleiburg1945 View Post
Secondly, this is a collectors forum, we are all collectors helping other collectors. There is no need for animosity or backhanded remarks even where there are conflicting opinions on items. I am sure anyone here would like to have you as a member of the community, but if you are going to act this way, then I am afraid that maybe this is not the place for you.
*In the "General Assualt Badge" book there was a badge that was shown to be from an unknown maker, but since then new info had surfaced to support that it was indeed a fake, the author and other collectors then in turn made it know as such.Comment
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This thread is getting Dull,see yas.Comment
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Here's another ReiterhoBen example, post war Polizei...Note closure tab!
Again rarely seen in the 1940's and for me unlikely in the 1930's! (Alg.SS)
Maybe the vet got his clothing mixed up and story confused?Last edited by NickG; 01-12-2012, 12:12 PM.Comment
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or can anybody show documented war time breeches (or prewar Alg.SS Black!)
with this style closure tab?
Wanting to find out more about this style as I usually avoid these as to me its a post war design!Comment
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