opinion for SS -Leather Overcoats 2 pice ?

[helmut01]

Hallo !
someone can say to 2 leather coats both coats are from the 2.WK my ask can both of the W-SS have been carried or gave it differences ?
geeting Helmut

[helmut01]

last pic 1)

[helmut01]

second Leather Coat !

[helmut01]

everything buttons rzm punched and black painted !

please they do not go out after the shoulder-boards during their evaluation !!!

[NickG]

They both look good to me with proper provisions for shoulderboards as well as (fake) French cuffs. The 1/2 belt on the 2nd one is per the regulations the full belt with support loops on the first one is a little strange for a military coat but other than that the cut is correct. No difference between WH and SS on these.
I do not like the SS shoulderboards though....

[Sonderkommando]

#

First coat seems to be either a fake, or made post war as it has an incorrect label for Max Schleusner, his wartime label was totally different and he was actually in Wintergarten Str. and not Durer Str. in Dresden as far as I know. Also, his wartime coats had the standard back-belt arrangement and not this civilian style back-belt we see here.

Second coat looks to be wartime, although it has several odd features to it not usually seen in these leather greatcoats. As an example, it has the buttons stitched on and not like the usual wartime attatchment method where they have long shanks on the buttons going through grommets, a button in half liner where they usually have full liners attached by press studs, etc etc. Personally I think it is pre '45 though and it seems to have genuine wear to it and I have seen these painted buttons on other pre '45 leather jackets. Probably a tailor variation.


Regards,
Brett

[Forseti]

Hi!

On such items (as allready mentioned) it is impossible to say if they are SS or WH. Maybe it could be civilian too. Allways hard to tell.

I dont believe in Postwar, as there is a lable with "Wehrmacht" (says they produce for WH) in it. A postwar "Dresden" label would never mention it (it has been soviet occupied).

I dont believe that this items are faked (as far as I am aware).

best wishes
michael

[Sonderkommando]

#

Hi Michael,
If it is a postwar fake then of course it would have Wehrmacht on the label to try and copy an original.


If you would like, PM me your email address and I will send you a picture to post here of an original pre '45 wartime label out of a military leather greatcoat by this maker.

Regards,
Brett

[napesica]

opinion for SS -Leather Overcoats 2 pice ?

Though they are not real clear , the shoulder straps look like reproductions. M

[helmut01]

???
Sorry Brett -Dixon but the Leather Overcoats are 100% original -i have it over 10 and 5 years about private household (family) and even the price is under 100$
(one piece ) the family`s make s no fakes for me !!

o.k. the shoulder-straps are no original he comes from the flee market !!)
(i have written -the shoulder-straps are no .....)

the leather belt is 100% original and belonged in such a way to the coat I already such pictures from the time before 45 with" civilian" belt saw !! i like LW ? i think !
but this is no the point the point is the coats are 1000% original

my question are it is a different by SS-LW -Wh ??

in the Schiffer-Book Uniforms of the W-SS band 2) is the same overcoat from SS-Obergruppenführer Demelhuber (whit the" civil " buttons ! )

the label is 100% original the factory Max Schleusner was on time 30.3 1939 in Dresden !!

[helmut01]

p

[helmut01]

p2

[helmut01]

p3

[helmut01]

and picture from the second coat - the coat is untouched since 1945 !!
sorry--without shoulder straps !!!- only the coat !

[phild]

You will get a lot of different opinions on these as there is almost no detailed published information on these...

In my experience with these and looking at a lot of period photographs of these in wear I would offer the following:

1. There is no hard and fast rule(s) as to how to determine if any variation of these coats including color/shade differences were worn by one service or another. There are some general characteristic that often apply to one service or the other but not always.
2. The metal faux leather knot buttons can be found in period photos worn by all 4 services (see 1 above) but are most often seen on LW used coats...although often on SS used ones as well....least seen on Heer.
3. Most Heer and W-SS coats had the collar hook/eye....but not all. Most LW and KM did not...but not all.
4. Turn back cuffs can be found and often are as "real"...even rayon lined...sometime they are false and sewn down all the way around...and sometimes they are false and on the front side of cuff only....the back is sans the turn back.
5. Sometimes buttons are sewn in...usually they are ringed tru round or oblong metal eyelets. Either way sewn or detachable is up to the maker.
6. Some can be found with the full belt as the first one you show...these were military worn.....I suspect that it was just an option or perhaps marketed for para-military more so but often bought by military officers anyway....you see it in period photos at any rate.
7. The linings could be all over the place.....some had them sewn in, some had non nor any provision for one, some had snaps for them and some had buttons.....lots of variations in the linings themselves....from brushed cotton, to "regular" cotton, blanket wool and also fur and probablay a lot of things I have yet to see......I also dont think that the detachable lining came with every coat the had the snaps or buttons for them...... I think that they were an option, but if they did come with them they were often taken out an not fooled with....
Essentially every coat had a fixed lining of some sort...but in some cases an additional one was available as well.

Keep in mind that top two buttons were worn open on Generals coats and KC bearers coats....and I think mostly on LW and KM officers with tie being worn......this fact could have a bearing on if the wearer needed the collar hook or not and also the branch of service that the coat was marketed to.

As to the lable in the fist coat....I have no idea....I think that I have a few of those so labled so I will check them....I would think that it is possible that more than one design and or adress was used during the period.......IMO both of the coats posted are pre-45 military officer coats...and very nice examples.