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Distinguishing SS M40 tunics from Heer ones

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    Distinguishing SS M40 tunics from Heer ones

    It appears that one very common uniform style has escaped almost everyone's notice. Each time a supposedly "SS" M36, M40 or M41 tunic is posted, everyone strains their eyes searching for traces of a breast eagless. Several very real and definitely SS tunics have languished on the E-stand while people grouse about "M40 army tunic + cost of insignia". SS M40/41's ARE different from their Heer cousins as are the later M42/43's. The differences just aren't quite as obvious and they are very difficult to see in wartime photos.

    This information will allow an SS tunic to readily be identified and ruled "in", but it won't help with Heer tunics which were genuinely used by the SS.
    Although SS M40/41 tunics do have the same number of button and belt hook holes as their Heer counterparts, there are two quick ways to identify SS tunics. The lining and the collar.

    Lining: Just as with the later M42/43's, the lower front lining panels are are cut differently than those in Heer jackets. The SS uniforms have 2 angles, the Heer have 3. (The SS M37 is cut the same way). This is the easiest and most definite way I've found to distinguish the two. Also, some SS tunics have the breast pocket sewn through the lining. The pocket flap is not (if so, it would inhibit use of the internal suspender channels.)

    Collar: SS collars are approximately 1cm wider than Heer. Although this fluctuates somewhat, the front edge of SS collars runs about 7.5-8cm and Heer are 6.5-7cm. This is due to the SS collar tabs being wider than Litzen. The collar is about the only way to tell them apart in photos. An SS collar will handle tabs and tresse with some room to spare. Using Heer tunics results in the top edge of collar tab rubbing the soldier's neck or nearly so. (The tunics on pages 229 and 237 of Uniforms of the Waffen SS, Vol 1 illustrate this well.)
    However, many have been "NCOified" which replaces the factory collar making it moot for this purpose.

    There are half a dozen other small pattern and sewing differences, but they require a good knowledge of sewing and a tape measure to check- and none are decisive in and of themselves.

    These tunics are rare but out there- I hope this helps make them easier to pick out.
    Attached Files

    #2
    This is a detail of the pocket attachment peculiar to some SS M40/41 tunics:
    The flap is attached to the chest, then the lining is put on and then the pocket. This is due to the SS habit of sometimes using a "blind stitch" machine to close the base of the internal suspender channel. (To do this after the pocket was on would be impossible.) Heer tunics (and some SS) close these slots with a hand stitch- if done so, then the pocket doesn't need to be sewn through the lining.
    Attached Files

    Comment


      #3
      m40

      n160, very interesting, I have the SS cut M40 , it is made just as you say but could you tell me where this info came from or is it your personal opinion ? I
      jimtoncar

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        #4
        Since the 1980's I also assumed the SS wore Heer M36-41 tunics. I've always wanted a genuine, EM SS M40 "combat" tunic- not an NCO walking out job. I could never find one that didn't have a trace of a breast eagle. I asked everyone I considered an expert at the time, how to tell the difference (including Mike Beaver) and no one had much of an answer.

        Then, in 1994 (or 95) I picked up a stripped M40 that had blatant cuff title and sleeve eagle ghosts, and was SS marked. The more I looked at it, the more differences in construction than a Heer M40 I found.

        So, I started digging and staring at original photos and looking at every "SS" M36/40/41" tunic that I could find since. Being that I also make German uniforms, and have disassembled several, I found several minor differences and tendencies with SS uniforms of all types.

        I realize that some people will accuse this of being rumor, conjecture, etc.. how do you think most what we "know" was decided? Like this.

        Comment


          #5
          If anybody has M36/40/41 SS tunics made like this, pics would be cool.
          I have still never seen a real SS M36- I'm curious whether it follows suit.
          Then we could see whether I'm on crack....

          Comment


            #6
            Here's the other minor things I've found with SS tunics (this holds for M42/43 and 44 dot too):

            1. The skirt is about 3-4cm shorter than the same length Heer tunic. You can determine this easily by subtracting the bottom left number (overall length) from the top left number (back waist) on the tunic stamp.
            SS tunics (all models) up to a 46 length typically have a skirt 25 or 26cm long. Heer tunics are normally 28-32. (They get longer as the tunic does.)
            Example: SS 43/68 = 25, 44/70 = 26
            Heer 41/69 = 28, 43/72 = 29

            (The skirt length is measured from the center belt hook hole to the hem)

            2. I have never seen a Heer tunic with an even numbered backwaist. They run 37-47, odd numbers. SS use both even and odd.

            If you think I'm crazy, go look at all the tunic markings you can find. The back lengths are very predictable.

            Comment


              #7
              This is really intriguing information it would be interesting to see if more turn up in this cut that are SS badged. Good work.

              Comment


                #8
                m.40

                Well, lets see where this goes, I will be interested to see if any Army M.40 's turn up with this SS lining ? If not I will agree with your findings . I hope the Forums can find examples .
                jimtoncar

                Comment


                  #9
                  How dare you use construction methods, materials, and sewing to differentiate between SS and Heer tunics! That borders on sacrilege! Don't you know that it is all just a matter of opinion!

                  N160...I am totally kidding, welcome to the forum and I hope things have changed enough that your thread is not erased or neutered. The fakers will be lining up to read this post and now only perfect fakes will be made...according to some.

                  Richard

                  Comment


                    #10
                    n160...are you the owner of At the Front...or work for them? Just curious.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      SS M40 Conversion

                      As N160 pointed out check out the lining.
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                        #12
                        "Someone" will be causing future collectors major heart ache in about 20 years with his "texled" feldbluse.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by JurgenHaack View Post
                          "Someone" will be causing future collectors major heart ache in about 20 years with his "texled" feldbluse.

                          I've handled two of these texled pieces in person..all using original hardware..buttons..cuff buttons...neck closure...etc etc..the attention to detail on the construction in ALL aspects is truly mindblowing, and these will fool TODAY, let alone 20 yers from now. Once the base fabric and lining is perfected..or close there to....they will be quite indistinguishable from the real thing down the road. The only saving grace may lie in the markings...however...the cat is out of the bag on almost ALL of these cloth items....and such postings as here...will be a primer for fakers who do not sell their wares above board..as ATF does...and god only knows that those industrious individuals are up to. IMO does bode well for the future of collecting.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by n160 View Post

                            Being that I also make German uniforms, and have disassembled several, I found several minor differences and tendencies with SS uniforms of all types.
                            Very interesting report so far . . . looking forward to more.

                            You wouldn't happen to have attended the November OVMS show last weekend, would you?

                            I (briefly) had the opportunity to meet a fellow who shares a similar practice - making German uniforms through disassenbly of authentic examples . . . couldn't believe the stories my ears were hearing, as it would seem so costly to do so . . . but I had no reason to doubt this fellows tales, as so many people who knew of his efforts came forward to verify the story . . .

                            Comment


                              #15
                              The best fakes are made by taking uniforms apart and getting the perfect panel proportions to make new ones. They still cannot get the correct period materials and use substitutes. This is something they will never be able to overcome and knowing the period materials is the best protection but if they use vintage fabrics it is a tough call. I will not buy anything unusual any more, it is too risky.

                              Comment

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