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Distinguishing SS M40 tunics from Heer ones

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    #196
    Pin!

    Ill repost this (posted 5 months ago...)

    I have found this thread a revelation and truely groundbreaking and would like to thank N160 and all the contributors for this interesting read.

    Shouldn't this post be pinned ? (Threads of interest category)

    Kapitein

    Comment

      #197
      Stamp in the tunic

      I would like to contribute on this nice thread.
      The stamps applied inside the tunic were not odd but totally logical.
      The back lenght is proportionnal for evrybody : Take your height and divide it by 4 : you obtain your regular back height. I am 180cm, my back height is 45cm.
      This measure is for civil clothing, for uniform cloth, as the belt is woren higher on the navel line, you need to take off 2 cm from your regular back height. So a 180cm man use to wore a size 43.
      Due to 3 holes of the belt suspension system you can play on the back height plus or minus one centimeter, and this is the reason why the tunic could be suitable for a range of height : 1,72-1,76 men received size 41 for instance.

      The collar size was althought a proportionnal system, ditto for the sleeve lenghts.

      About tunic lenght , it was deducted form the waffenrock lenght ( the stymem explained above comes from the imperial army):
      Waffenrock lengt is the height of the guy divided by 2, minus 16cm. For a 180cm man : 180/2=90, 90-16 =74cm, with 43 back height and 31cm skirt lenght

      The Heer tunic was 3cm shorter than the waffenrock, so for the 180cm man, the tunic was 71cm.

      All measurments were ultra logical, and very sharp, and this is the same for coat, overcoat, opencollar tunic, cap and so...

      Comment

        #198
        Originally posted by daviken View Post
        I would like to contribute on this nice thread.
        The stamps applied inside the tunic were not odd but totally logical.
        The back lenght is proportionnal for evrybody : Take your height and divide it by 4 : you obtain your regular back height. I am 180cm, my back height is 45cm.
        This measure is for civil clothing, for uniform cloth, as the belt is woren higher on the navel line, you need to take off 2 cm from your regular back height. So a 180cm man use to wore a size 43.
        Due to 3 holes of the belt suspension system you can play on the back height plus or minus one centimeter, and this is the reason why the tunic could be suitable for a range of height : 1,72-1,76 men received size 41 for instance.

        The collar size was althought a proportionnal system, ditto for the sleeve lenghts.

        About tunic lenght , it was deducted form the waffenrock lenght ( the stymem explained above comes from the imperial army):
        Waffenrock lengt is the height of the guy divided by 2, minus 16cm. For a 180cm man : 180/2=90, 90-16 =74cm, with 43 back height and 31cm skirt lenght

        The Heer tunic was 3cm shorter than the waffenrock, so for the 180cm man, the tunic was 71cm.

        All measurments were ultra logical, and very sharp, and this is the same for coat, overcoat, opencollar tunic, cap and so...

        Comment

          #199
          Pinned?
          Attached Files
          Last edited by NickG; 08-16-2012, 05:39 PM.

          Comment

            #200
            Heer 3-hole M43 tunic with "SS pattern" liner.

            http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=627662
            Attached Files

            Comment

              #201
              M41/42

              This is a very interesting thread and theory about the difference between Heer and WSS liner and I am agree but what about this transictional lining M41/42 with five buttons and two waist eyelets?

              Why this was done is open to conjecture
              Attached Files
              Siam fatti cosi!

              Comment

                #202
                That's a 2 hole, 5 button with 3 step liner....Indeed interesting Luca!

                Here's another 2 step W-SS example! (3 hole 2 step!)
                (also note horizontal first aid pouch button slit...those 2 traits go
                hand-in-hand apparently, (for the believers in this SS contract spec theory!)
                Open to conjecture indeed!


                The dealer here is a believer and describes it all here (with more tunic images!)

                http://www.virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=2197
                Attached Files
                Last edited by NickG; 10-24-2013, 06:44 PM.

                Comment

                  #203
                  Originally posted by Luca Ongaro View Post
                  This is a very interesting thread and theory about the difference between Heer and WSS liner and I am agree but what about this transictional lining M41/42 with five buttons and two waist eyelets?
                  Is it possible to see clear, well lit photos of this example?

                  Comment

                    #204
                    Originally posted by Chris Pittman View Post
                    Heer 3-hole M43 tunic with "SS pattern" liner.

                    http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=627662
                    The lining in M42-43's is an entirely different animal.

                    Comment

                      #205
                      Originally posted by n160 View Post
                      The lining in M42-43's is an entirely different animal.
                      I agree, although it is interesting to note that the liner of the alleged M42 SS example in post #201 is similar to that of its Heer counterparts and does not go to the bottom of the tunic like usually seen with SS produced M42 tunics.

                      But as Luca states, this appears to be somekind of transitional tunic; so rather M40 style than M42 (i.e. with pleated pockets f.e.)?

                      Comment

                        #206
                        The 2-angle SS-cut theory is very convincing, but I am not completely convinced by the theory that every SS tunic has a different or shorter length than a standard Heer tunic.

                        Have a look into post 159 and 160 of this thread.

                        http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...&postcount=159

                        http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...&postcount=160

                        They both show the interior of an - according to the theory - undoubtable 2-angle SS-cut tunic. But the measured and stamped overall length is 65 and the backwaist length is 39 - which is one of the most common sizes and has been announced in this thread to be a specific (too long) length for Heer tunics only, with a 26 cm long tailored skirt.

                        http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...&postcount=107

                        The tunic in post 133 seem to comply to this theory (button hole) also, but has an overall length of 65 and a backwaist length of 40 which results in a 25 cm skirt, too. And it has an even numbered backwaist in combination with a Heeresbeschaffungsamt Munich 1940 prove mark (M40-stamp).

                        http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...&postcount=133

                        Personally, I would affiliate to this statement according to the length measurements.

                        http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...&postcount=197

                        It sounds legit and well investigated.

                        I also doubt that (like it has been stated somewhere in this thread - not necessarily by the theme starter) the 2-angle SS-cut theory also applies on SS-M36 tunics. Most of the appropriate tunics in this thread are Heer style M40 with later added green collars. The early SS-VT soldiers simply got Heer tunics in Heer cut, hence the M37 interior is in similar 3-angle cut too.

                        You also have to distinguish the Heer style M40 with 5 button front from the SS-M40 with open collar and widely M37 features.

                        Comment

                          #207
                          Originally posted by Lorenz View Post
                          Bob,
                          I have in collection this later m40 uniform, later manifactured IMO for the wool and the high rajon lining in an unusual light color, the uniform have the SS cut lining, the stamps of the size and an other stamp illegible under the armpit.
                          lorenz
                          What does the unusual stamp under the armpit means???

                          http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...554423&page=11

                          Comment

                            #208
                            Soviet stamp.

                            Comment

                              #209
                              Originally posted by viva_giulio View Post
                              Soviet stamp.
                              From an museum?

                              Comment

                                #210
                                I can't read anything just see a clear Cyrillic font for P(r) and (I)

                                Comment

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