Distinguishing SS M40 tunics from Heer ones

[NickG]

Well a Heer 2 fold (2 angle) liner cut finally surfaced....
not an M40 but instead an M41 with 6 button. Usually 3 folds are the norm.

Here links to both variants...
It looks like a 2 panel but its really a 3 panel with the first aid pouch covering the third angle...see red
Makes it confusing!

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=561436

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=561006

So to me the theory still holds!
Still a sound explanation this SS spec with the following traits;
wider collar, usually horizontal button hole slit on 1st aid pouch + shorter skirt.

[Glenn McInnes]

Well a Heer 2 fold (2 angle) liner cut finally surfaced....
not an M40 but instead an M41 with 6 button. Usually 3 folds are the norm.

Here links to both variants...
It looks like a 2 panel but its really a 3 panel with the first aid pouch covering the third angle...see red
Makes it confusing!

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=561436

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=561006

So to me the theory still holds!
Still a sound explanation this SS spec with the following traits;
wider collar, usually horizontal button hole slit on 1st aid pouch + shorter skirt.

Easier if you look at the other side.












Glenn

[revi]

Nice Galizien!
Thanks for the link.

[NickG]

Easier if you look at the other side.



Glenn

Yep indeed the other side tells all! Its still a 3 fold. This theory has still not been broken. Not a single Heer 2 fold (2 angle) has turned up and I don't think they will...
So how can this be a simple makers variation? (a question for the non-believers)

[Zauberflöte]

...

Here links to both variants...
It looks like a 2 panel but its really a 3 panel with the first aid pouch covering the third angle...see red
......
So to me the theory still holds!
Still a sound explanation this SS spec with the following traits;
wider collar, usually horizontal button hole slit on 1st aid pouch + shorter skirt.

Sharp eye Nick, of course, I was too hasty!
I'm almost happy it is merely a "false alarm" ....

[Zauberflöte]

Maybe to get this thread pinned is a little to ambitious at this time, but I definitely find it groundbreaking enough to bring it ones more to the top.

F.

[Mike C]

Just noticed that Beaver Vol 1 pgs 227-229 has a veteran sourced W-SS M36 in the heer style...

Mike

[A c h t u n g !]

Just noticed that Beaver Vol 1 pgs 227-229 has a veteran sourced W-SS M36 in the heer style...

Mike

If you just read the thread - it has all been said already: there are plenty of W-SS tunics with the "Heer 3-angle lining", but not a single Heer tunic with the "W-SS 2-angle lining".

Hi
I am new to this forum but if I can contribute. In the Beaver's book page 229, the SS M 40 that is shown is with three angles like the 'Heer' one.
Conversely, all the ones in the 1941 chapter have the 2 angles.
Hope this helps.

Voltreffer? Its not proving a point at all! Yes a period SS tunic recycled from Heer is still an SS tunic but its not an SS contract tunic, if the theory is true!

Yes it is a well known fact that recycling was going on....and that has really nothing to do with the topic of the possible existence of SS contract uniforms with a distinct liner difference.

It is easy to find SS tunics with 3 stap panels in the liner (recyled Heer perhaps if the theory is correct?), but so far impossible to find examples of Heer tunics with 2 step (2 angle) liners...

Otherwise somebody PLEASE show an original untouched Heer M40 tunic with the 2 angles...Even the parrallel thread in the Heer section came up with NOTHING...
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=555365
strenghtening this theory! (to me at least)

...

[istra63]

Very good attention to detail n160
If this information is validated, then it could become
a very good tool for collectors in the future(and hopefully not
fakers)
Fortunately, all my uniforms are officer types at this
stage so I haven't had the need to check them out
- fully lined!
We must be mindful of the fact, that when the SS
manufactured uniforms to foreful their needs, quite often
Heer uniforms were utilised to cover the balance if there
were short comings in production.
Thank you very much for your insite

[NickG]

Bringing this topic back to the top as the following was posted in the parrallel WH thread on this interesting topic (posted by vbergman):

There are other differences between a "Heer" M40 and an "SS" M40, but I'm not at liberty to disclose them at this time. Sorry, gents

Anymore thoughts, input? proof? examples?
or examples to counter this "theory" (like 2 step liner WH)? SHOW ME!!!!

I happen to find this a groundbreaking topic!
and it could positively effect the value on "true" SS cut M40 tunics (as opposed to branch transferred period (WH>SS) transformed ones...for the "now" believers)

[Fritz]

If you just read the thread - it has all been said already: there are plenty of W-SS tunics with the "Heer 3-angle lining", but not a single Heer tunic with the "W-SS 2-angle lining".

Not that Mike needs me to defend him or that you meant to attack him but please see that some people just don't have the time to read through 140 + post threads. Mike is an old member and - if I may add - a nice guy. It seems that lately he hasn't been around here that much and therefore I think he didn't follow the thread from the start.


So far I know of no case in which the SS supplied the wehrmacht from SS stocks with the exception of camouflage items delivered to the Luftwaffe (likely based on a trade deal) and the odd insignia that, for some reason, ended on wehrmacht uniforms at factory level.

Of course there were many isolated cases in which wehrmacht personal used SS items but that was mostly inofficial. Vice versa the official cases are countless.

This is a great thread BTW.


Cheers

[Napalm]

I hope this doesn't sink 'underground' and only those in the know 'so to speak' have that extra bit of proof behind them and use this information to screw people over, but that will happen anyways...Great thread.,..

[NickG]

I hope this doesn't sink 'underground' and only those in the know 'so to speak' have that extra bit of proof behind them and use this information to screw people over, but that will happen anyways...Great thread.,..

Yes indeed, very informative, very revealing and needs to be PINNED

[kapitein]

What about M42?

Good question posted on the wehrmacht Heer uniform thread about this subject:
Can anyone do some research on M42 jackets to see what and if we can find any differences aswell? n160?
Kapitein

[Hilton]

Is the difference between 5/6 buttons and 2/3 belt hook holes not evidence enough on the M42?