Distinguishing SS M40 tunics from Heer ones

[NickG]

Close up:
COMPARE...look at the stitching angle...no need to remove/lift that (modified) pocket lining!
We have another one that meets this intriguing theory! Definately not a 3 step panel! 2 angles!

[n160]

There are so many differences as to defy belief. I have seen so much mixing of the "collector designated" model numbers to make them absurd. Hopefully this kind of posting will begin to dispel a lot of carry over created by collectors/authors in classifications not based on actual German descriptions or numeric assignments.

Richard

If we try to explain that the Germans didn't use all these model numbers....do you realize the wave of aneurysms that would result?

[n160]

[QUOTE=viva_giulio;4974765]i mean... why early SSVT shortened their m36 tunics? why this was so common in TK or 1,2,3 on Poland?

Your observation of a shorter SS cut was involved in the usual modification of m36 into m37?[/QUOTE


It's probably predominant in some units for two simple reasons- one soldier got it done to his jacket and the other guys thought it looked hot so they all ran down to the tailor and got their done too. And, their unit leadership permitted it.

The shorter cut I'm talking about is NOT a modification at all. Look at the factory stamps in an SS tunic and compare them to an Army tunic of the same back waist length and the SS always has a shorter skirt. Even if the tunic has been shortened by someone, if the numbers are still visible, you can tell what it was from the factory. Thus far, EVERY SS tunic, of every model, that we can find is shorter.

[Mike Davis]

The shorter cut I'm talking about is NOT a modification at all. Look at the factory stamps in an SS tunic and compare them to an Army tunic of the same back waist length and the SS always has a shorter skirt. Even if the tunic has been shortened by someone, if the numbers are still visible, you can tell what it was from the factory. Thus far, EVERY SS tunic, of every model, that we can find is shorter.

I believe this can also be observed from study of period photos....

[phild]

One of the best uniform threads that I have seen in long while. Your analysis approach is how knowledge is advanced as opposed to what is is the norm...i.e. "that is what I have told" translated to "that has been the standard assumption therefore fact".

A wild guess on my part could be that the SS-VT in the later 30s decided to shorten thier existing tunics wither informally (as was suggested above) or by a directive no yet found..and this retro modification became a spec later on when they contract their own production.

We also know that the LAH received and allocation of Heer "M36" tunics circa 1938 (I think it was) or were these really Heer M-36 tunics?

I also agree with the comments made about collector classifications, sadly it does not stop simply with tunic year designations.

[kapitein]

Wouldn't a shorter tunic skirt make the man look taller - longer legs - and thus more impressive compared to WH uniform cut soldiers?

This is indeed intreaging and fits with the way these soldiers were trained.

I think things are coming together here.

It became custom later to have your WH 'walking out tunic' trimmed like this aswell!

Kapitein

[Lorenz]

Seams that this theory could be true, but "when" the SS started to manifacture, or buy from manifacturer M36/40 uniforms with those "SS" caracteristics?
Here a pair of mine with the "SS" lining, but I own also some SS uniforms with the "Heer" lining, so maybe this theory is partially correct, maybe before they bought theyr uniforms from the same factorys that producted for the heer and with the same carcteristics.
Short uniforms were manifactured for the SS after the war begun, The M37 VT uniforms were pretty long when producted, after were shortened by the SS owners, some time exagerately, exist a lot of prewar pictures evidence.
lorenz

[Lorenz]

M40

[Lorenz]

.....and this?

[Lorenz]

Opssss..this jacket seams to be half Heer and half SS...

[revi]

Lorenz, I think you are right with your remark that the SS uniforms in the beginning had the long skirt too. Also that for the initial SSLAH green tunic. There is and should be plenty of photographic evidence to support that.
We should also not forget the early field brown uniforms for the non LAH SS troops. All these first issued types also have the small collar, same goes for the WH36 type tunic, the cramped space for the collar taps can be easily seen in the photoos.
It might be interesting to start at the developing stages of the SS VT and the command they were placed under, SA, Wehrmacht to the point of a selfsufficient and commanding force, instead of starting with the M40 and theorising back to the early uniforms. It would be logical that the supplies in this first period would come through the organisation the SS was placed under. I have seen examples of earth brown uniform jackets with the long skirt initially being SS / property / Stamped / labeled and later reissued and restamped to RAD.

[Lorenz]

yes Revi,
here an exemple of M37 uniform with the original manifacture longness, not shortened at the time, seams also that the SS with the M37 uniforms went for the "Heer" style lining...
Lorenz

Lorenz, I think you are right with your remark that the SS uniforms in the beginning had the long skirt too. Also that for the initial SSLAH green tunic. There is and should be plenty of photographic evidence to support that.
We should also not forget the early field brown uniforms for the non LAH SS troops. All these first issued types also have the small collar, same goes for the WH36 type tunic, the cramped space for the collar taps can be easily seen in the photoos.
It might be interesting to start at the developing stages of the SS VT and the command they were placed under, SA, Wehrmacht to the point of a selfsufficient and commanding force, instead of starting with the M40 and theorising back to the early uniforms. It would be logical that the supplies in this first period would come through the organisation the SS was placed under. I have seen examples of earth brown uniform jackets with the long skirt initially being SS / property / Stamped / labeled and later reissued and restamped to RAD.

[NickG]

Opssss..this jacket seams to be half Heer and half SS...

1/2 heer (3 angle) 1/2 SS (2 angle) image comment
I think is is just sloppy sewing of the 2 angle cut...So its the supposed SS style liner cut.

In reality no 3 clear angles shown here! A "Heer" 3 angle would have very distinct (3) angles!

[NickG]

This one is on Oakleave... Well guess what ...
AGAIN 2 angle !
To me its a pretty overwhelming theory as no Heer contract (Heer badged) tunics have surfaced
yet with 2 angles...

[Kreager]

Very informative thread