User: Thorsten B, Welding/Braizing TR era

[John T]

detail-

[Dmv]

John , post this in the cultural thread, now two things get mixed up: the discussion about Thorsten and the ID-ing of cultural items.

[jacquesf]

William, You say I cant comment on the further fraudulent behavior as seen on WAF by thorsten because he tried to rip me off at a previous time?
And
You are claiming that the fact of thorsten's trying to rip me off is in actuality his personality-and so i cant talk about his ripping me off as it is his personality?

And on top of that, there are others pointing out the inauthenticity of his items, including the creator of this thread and they are separate individuals-so how do you use anything to do with me to tell them to stop communicating their concerns

I fail to grasp your logic in every way.
You make no sense at all.

"I fail to grasp your logic in every way.
You make no sense at all. "

Never a more true word was spoken. Jacques

[Thälmannpionier]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yPcoS7Y38Q

[ZAM]

As i`am not often here in SS Forum, i collect mainly equipment, i just saw this thread. I`am the poor buyer of this iron candle holder!
I collect Wehrmacht equipment for over 20 years, and also period art, furniture and daily use items. The military stuff is on display, but the other items are on daily use! And that`s what i bought the candle holder for. I like the style of it and i`am happy with it. The price was fair, i think a new handmade iron candle holder would cost the same. I paid and Thorsten sent it to me within 3 days, everything was fine.
As a collector for many years i THINK i can judge a bread bag or a canteen if it is period or not. But i think it is hard to say if the candle holder is pre 45 or not, but i don`t care about it!
I think every collector must judge it for himself if an item is OK, period, or not. Who can say if it was made 1944, 1964 or 2006!? We all neither saw when it was made nor take it from the factory. So you believe it or not. For example, an old cutler from Thuringia told me that he had made SS daggers in a factory before May 1945. The war ended, and the "Americans" came. After a few days the factory began to made SS, SA aso daggers again, now not for the German gouvernment, but for the GI`s. And they done this till Germany was reunited in 1989! So, who can judge now a pre and post 1945 dagger from this maker? I think a lot of post war daggers from this man are in collections all over the world, dealers sell them as originals and the owners are happy with their items.
I buy art or cultural items because of their style, if i like them and if the price is OK. Nobody can say if our collcting items are 100% pre May 1945, look my writing above. I have some knowldgement on WH equipment, i can say it maybe 99% if a bread bag is OK, but never 100%. And i think that`s how it goes, collecting military or TR items is like our money system, you must believe on it!
To come to an end and burn the candle on the nice candle holder, it was a good deal with Thorsten, quick delivery and nice communication !

Best regards
Dirk

[CWP]

Dirk, nice to see something reasonable in this thread, thank you.

[PBR]

Hello,

Looks to me many don't understand the whole issue here.

I like the style of it and i`am happy with it. The price was fair, i think a new handmade iron candle holder would cost the same. I paid and Thorsten sent it to me within 3 days, everything was fine.

The fact that you are happy with that has nothing to do with this.
The matter is that you can not sell questionable items on the Estand, even if you think they are period or you don't know either.
So, if you are happy, that's good for you, but 1 happy customer doesn't turn a fakes seller into an honest fella (not saying that Thorsten is a fake seller, just making an example).
This is the meaning of the Estand: to let good people sell good stuff to good buyers and without any risk, isn't it?
Otherwise, why people deliberately selling fakes have been banned during the last years?
At least this is my point of view.

I think every collector must judge it for himself if an item is OK, period, or not. Who can say if it was made 1944, 1964 or 2006!? We all neither saw when it was made nor take it from the factory.

You just said that.
If you don't know for sure, and the seller doesn't know for sure, and we don't know for sure and some of us have also concerns about it, then, why sell it described as a period item on the Estand?
The Bazaar is meant for all that stuff that's not original or at least that raised concerns, so, I think that that was the proper place where to sell such an item.
You could have well bought it on the Bazaar also, for the same price, and without this boring thread.

That's pretty much it.

[CWP]

Hello,
This is the meaning of the Estand: to let good people sell good stuff to good buyers and without any risk, isn't it?

There is no way to collect this material without any risk and I don't think anyone could ever create any selling venue that would eliminate all risk. I see items on there every day that are questionable to me but if someone else wants them and feels comfortable, fine. We can build a consensus on any given item but that does not constitute proof that it is or is not real and on some items authenticity is subjective and may come down to a gut feeling. I believe that the meaning of the E-Stand is to provide a venue for collector to collector sales, there is no vetting process for items listed there. The crusade launched in response to the sale of this candle holder is baffling to me.

[ZAM]

There is no way to collect this material without any risk and I don't think anyone could ever create any selling venue that would eliminate all risk. I see items on there every day that are questionable to me but if someone else wants them and feels comfortable, fine. We can build a consensus on any given item but that does not constitute proof that it is or is not real and on some items authenticity is subjective and may come down to a gut feeling. I believe that the meaning of the E-Stand is to provide a venue for collector to collector sales, there is no vetting process for items listed there. The crusade launched in response to the sale of this candle holder is baffling to me.

[PBR]

There is no way to collect this material without any risk and I don't think anyone could ever create any selling venue that would eliminate all risk. I see items on there every day that are questionable to me but if someone else wants them and feels comfortable, fine. We can build a consensus on any given item but that does not constitute proof that it is or is not real and on some items authenticity is subjective and may come down to a gut feeling. I believe that the meaning of the E-Stand is to provide a venue for collector to collector sales, there is no vetting process for items listed there.

Ok, then standing to that, anybody would be allowed to sell everything on the Estand, even if concerns are raised, just replying "I don't care, I think is original"?
Is this what are you trying to say?

[ZAM]

And, who can say if a collector item is 100% period? Weitze, Wittmann, Steagemeier?

[PBR]

And, who can say if a collector item is 100% period? Weitze, Wittmann, Steagemeier?

This is a dangerous terrain, be careful.
I'm not saying that just such kind of well known sellers can say what is or what is not good, but as far as I know the 90% of collectors (so, we are not talking about the advanced collectors, that have huge knowledge about the various subjects) stick to textbook pieces for well known reasons.
So, "textbook" is "original" as far as I know.
Then we can say there are no rules at all, that anybody may state whatever thing came to his mind, and that's ok.
But personally I think that's just misleading, since with misinformation you would eventually open the fortress's doors to fakers.

Just my 2 Reichsmark.

[ZAM]

So, "textbook" is "original" as far as I know.

Can i use this as my new signature?

In my opinion the more textbook an (TR/miltary collectors) item is the less is the change that is original! (High end) fakers copy textbook items because they can sell them better to all the "textbook" collectors. And as we all know, or should know, only a small percentage of (original pre May 45 made) TR items are really textbook.

And the rule is not really a rule because NO ONE can say what is real or not, we can believe, nothing more. my 2 Reichpfennig!

Best regards
Dirk

[PBR]

Can i use this as my new signature?

In my opinion the more textbook an (TR/miltary collectors) item is the less is the change that is original! (High end) fakers copy textbook items because they can sell them better to all the "textbook" collectors. And as we all know, or should know, only a small percentage of (original pre May 45 made) TR items are really textbook.

And the rule is not really a rule because NO ONE can say what is real or not, we can believe, nothing more. my 2 Reichpfennig!

Best regards
Dirk

OK, you win.

[Sal Williams]

Can i use this as my new signature?

In my opinion the more textbook an (TR/miltary collectors) item is the less is the change that is original! (High end) fakers copy textbook items because they can sell them better to all the "textbook" collectors. And as we all know, or should know, only a small percentage of (original pre May 45 made) TR items are really textbook.

And the rule is not really a rule because NO ONE can say what is real or not, we can believe, nothing more. my 2 Reichpfennig!

Best regards
Dirk

Yes deregulation has worked so well for us lets do some of it on the estand.