User: Thorsten B, Welding/Braizing TR era

[Thorsten B.]

I don´t really get what you want to say with your comment.

Just to keep an eye on me make sure that you check the E-stand from time to time - otherwise you might miss my cultural beauties I offer there, just like many other successful sellers/members as well, occasionally.

Exclusively there - because it is really the best marketplace among true gentlemen collectors.

[PlaceOfBayonets]

I'm confused by this thread. The Piece in question is not even a military item tho it might be related to military service.

But the biggest question in my mind is....

Is there a buyer who is claiming to have been burnt by Thorston or has Thorston refused a refund? If this is the case I must have missed it. If it's not the case this thread is petty. I realize the big fish are protected but why go on a wild goose chase after little fish?

W.

[Jock Auld]

I'm confused by this thread. The Piece in question is not even a military item tho it might be related to military service.

But the biggest question in my mind is....

Is there a buyer who is claiming to have been burnt by Thorston or has Thorston refused a refund? If this is the case I must have missed it. If it's not the case this thread is petty. I realize the big fish are protected but why go on a wild goose chase after little fish?

W.

Why is that the biggest question in mind?

If the item is infact mig/tig welded it is wrong but was sold as original

The fact that some-one has not complained is not the issue

I don't see the difference in size of fish, by that logic any small crook is ok?

If the thread is petty then buy some items from Thorsten!

Jock

[PlaceOfBayonets]

As I pointed out in one of those other threads on this issue, unless you can say Thorston is a professional welder himself then you can't say there was intentional fraud. I sure would not know about the welding techniques used then to now.

I saw the welder's post and added up that the buyer was happy with the item and was not seeking a refund.

My conclusion was Thorston did nothing wrong knowingly, the buyer was free to make an issues out of it and request refund, far as I know that did not happen even after others had made it an issue. The Mods were involved and I believe that due to the outcome of no moderator enforcement that they must have seen things as I did.

So I can't see any reason for this new thread but that maybe some of you do not like Thorston's Pro German outlook. He's not post war PC like most and maybe that bothers some of you. Can't think whatever it might be. Because the people on his case are silent about other cases they could well be jumping all over with better cause then we find here.

W.

Why is that the biggest question in mind?

If the item is infact mig/tig welded it is wrong but was sold as original

The fact that some-one has not complained is not the issue

I don't see the difference in size of fish, by that logic any small crook is ok?

If the thread is petty then buy some items from Thorsten!

Jock

[Michael Fay]

So I can't see any reason for this new thread but that maybe some of you do not like Thorston's Pro German outlook. He's not post war PC like most and maybe that bothers some of you. .

W.

I get ugly looks for being suspected of being pro German...Thanks for including me as a "some of you." it is refreshing to be accused of being NOT pro German for once.

[PlaceOfBayonets]

This thread and the others are a waste of time and space on WAF.

[David Guist]

Agreed !

[Thorsten B.]

Thank you - I really appreciate your statements.

Now actually have a look into the thread "A couple of cultural items" in the Tony Barto SS forum:

You can be a witness of more ruthless accusations of member Michael Fay trying to put my name and my pieces I share in the mud once again.

I am kind enough to share my newest aquisation: a beautiful and authentic SS family chest - by looking at the pics of my chest Michael - obviously - fell for his jealousy (or ignorance?) once again and acts accordingly.

Therefore: Beware of SS cultural experts in WAF clothing.

[Nordmark]

Please mods, don´t close this thread, it is highly entertaining! All I need now is popcorn and ice cream...

[John Henderson]

I have read with some disgust, the bickering here. There is no excuse for some of the remarks from both sides. That said, If you arent exactly "up" on welding tecniques of the past, then you would not know if a weld is period or not. However being an old school trained blacksmith and interested in old German forge tecniques I thought it about time to lay down a few basics for future references, for fellow members.
Firstly in the forges of Europe the first technique of welding was forge welding. This pre-dates all manual metal arc welding (stick or mma). This type of fusion is done by heating both components to be joined until white hot, these are then placed together, sparks flying, on the anvil and hammered until they become one. This joining is enabled due to the fact , iron is being used, which has a low carbon content, and is easily fused. Nowadays if a blacksmith wants to do this type of fusion weld, this is more difficult, as steel with higher carbon contents than iron, does not reach the same maliability as iron. Steel tends to burn at higher temperature, to combat this burning, the two parts are rolled in sand pre-hammering to assist in the fusion. However there will always be join lines in the workpiece. The term wrought iron means worked iron, originally pronounced "rocht". The next tecnique would be MMA, manual metal arc, or stick welding. This was also around during wartime years, as was gas welding, which look completely different placed side by side. Mig welding on the other hand is easy to spot compared with the previous two tecniques. Generally smoother, less heat disipation throughout the welded components. Cleaner.
If you look at any period British or European/ German wrought ironwork, then rivetting, forge welding and gas welding are generally the techniques used by the blacksmiths and metalworkers in conecting metal components together at the time.
So I would say that, after that somewhat long winded explanation, if the item was mig welded and Thorston B unwittingly sold the item and the buyer is unhappy, then return it, give a refund and put it down to experience. One last point though, could the candlestick be "period" but had a modern repair, using a mig welder? In my trade, we are asked to repair artistic cultural items dating pre war, all the time for private customers. Just a thought.
regards John

[Thorsten B.]

John,

Thank you very much for your input.

[PlaceOfBayonets]

I thought about it possibly being period with modern repaire too. And I did not doubt the welder who commented on it in the other tread nor doubt anyone with welding experience such as yourself. I only point out that to be dishonest in a description Thorsten would have to have the same expertize and no one's proven he has, so the accuzations or inuendos that Thorsten is a crook are silly, petty and childish.

Every item on the E stand is sold with an inspection period. Far as I know buyer has not made any complaints.

And has the buyer even commented on any of the threads? I sure did not see it.

[Kiwi Ric]

This post does a fantastic job of putting anyone off from having anything to do with collecting German war time items and having anything todo with the collecting community.

Rather baffled it was not locked or removed by mods

[Jock Auld]

Goodness Me,

Where to start?

I hope everyone had a nice week end?

John thankyou sharing your knowledge the best bit so far, post war repair is best option?

W.

I am sure Thorsten is not a welder nor am I or you but he claims to know his stuff in this area?

Stop adding, assumption is the mother of all etc

The buyer is silent, that could be for many reasons, for example there may not be a buyer, he is embarrased by the whole issue he does not want to rock the boat etc! look forward t his input!

Your last point, I assume you mean he is a proud German as opposed to how it may have came accross given the news in Germany in the last few days I am sure Thorsten would not thank you for implying anything else.

Mr Fay,

It did look on other threads that you have a personal issue with Thorsten so your input will deflect from the fact.

Nordmark,

He is clearly known to you and your mate? Good on you for helping a friend but you too are a dealer, of the same ilk? Pop corn lasts longer enjoy.

Mr Guist,

You are in a position of authority, your fellow mods did not seem too happy when Thorsten did not reply, he could have sorted this before it got this far.

Or is he beyond question?

Thorsten,

I have not said you are a crook, you like to comment about other alledged fraudsters but all I remember is a Moderator stating all is not well and you refusing to defend your item regardless of sale .

Whether you recognise it or not you only respond to posts that are in your eyes favourable?

Kiwi Ric,

Good, more for me, joke!

No but seriousy Kiwi are you from down under?

I ask because if you are you more likey to be doing deals with these people than I am and it is in your interest they are accountable?

Mr Guist,

I request you to speek to your peers that dealt with this in the first place can you not smell a fish?

I understand this is time consumming and annoying, sorry!

Jock

[David Guist]

I will refrain from saying what I smell .