Knautschmuetze SS Officer

[Johnny R]

I agree with Bob, I only posted what I know and observed and am here to learn. I know nothing about headgear. It is the "final frontier".

[BenVK]

Hi Bob, ask Peter, he's the man.

What the hell do I know? I'be only been restoring every kind of hat since 2006.

Goodnight my friend!

[Bob Hritz]

Hi Bob, ask Peter, he's the man.

What the hell do I know? I'be only been restoring every kind of hat since 2006.

Goodnight my friend!

Hello,

I value your input and knowledge of headgear. Many of us would be lost without your help. I have also known Peter for many decades and have learned much about uniforms and headgear from him.

There is no reason to have any hard feelings when we can learn from both of your experiences.

Bob Hritz

[Richard P]

Ben,

I'm sure many have been following along such as myself. I just try and glean from the best points put forward by all. I keep waiting for Phil to come back on as I know he has a pretty fair knowledge of at least Weimar period uniforms and hats and their materials. I don't recall how well he knows his Imperial uniforms and headgear, but I have always found him a measured voice of reason.

It would be nice to see more photos of the subject cap posted! Thanks for all the hard work and research so far.

Richard

[Beobachter]

Arrogancy

Arrogancy of mister "Johnny R" has no limits.

Waste of time

I agree with Bob, I only posted what I know and observed and am here to learn. I know nothing about headgear. It is the "final frontier".

[Sonderkommando]

*

Peter raised a valid point about the buckles sitting on the leather visor in post #77. In posts #2 & 3 I can see what appears to be holes from the chincord buttons on the side of the cap.

However, in post #20 there are 3 holes in the cap band where the skull sits (2 on the left when looking at the cap front on), and a clear outline of a round cockarde being on there at some stage......


Brett

[phild]

Ben,

I'm sure many have been following along such as myself. I just try and glean from the best points put forward by all. I keep waiting for Phil to come back on as I know he has a pretty fair knowledge of at least Weimar period uniforms and hats and their materials. I don't recall how well he knows his Imperial uniforms and headgear, but I have always found him a measured voice of reason.

It would be nice to see more photos of the subject cap posted! Thanks for all the hard work and research so far.

Richard

I have been all over the place on this cap. At this point my feeling is that it is an original Imperial Veterinarian cap that was re-badged at some point to be SS...pre or post 45...who knows.

If I had it in my hands I think that I could feel certain either way as to the period it was made, but the problem in this case with only having photos is that there were so many varieties in fabric, lining, visors, headbands and even the shape that can be found on Imperial caps. The crushers were in many way derived from a variety of popular WWI cap style that was built for use at the front...light weight, no shaping.padding and leather visor....in other words, they were like the one that started this thread.

Compound the facts above with the fact that only 20 years after WWI many of the same Imperial era cap makers were making private purchase crushers out of more or less the same materials that they had used a bit earlier.....it can be tough to determine when the piping and band combo will work for both Imperial and 3rd Reich......note in Shea's book on SS headgear the only SS officer crusher pictured in the featured cap examples of the book is in fact a re-badged Imperial era Technical/Art. style "crusher"...and is stated as such in a round about way in the book.

Lastly on the matter of the chinstrap imprints, it could offer a clue, but chinstraps (or cords in some cases) were worn and not worn on Imperial caps like this and the same is true for both Heer and SS crushers. So the use of a chinstrap really does not prove the era or the cap type either way.

[Johnny R]

Arrogancy of mister "Johnny R" has no limits.

Waste of time

What on earth are you talking about? Is there another language problem? I will be the first person to admit I do not know anything about headgear- and did that in that post by saying that the hat colors are the same as a WWI Vet cap. That is all I know.

[Richard P]

What on earth are you talking about? Is there another language problem? I will be the first person to admit I do not know anything about headgear- and did that in that post by saying that the hat colors are the same as a WWI Vet cap. That is all I know.

Meester Johnny,

I think you are on to something! He is not on this Earth and his English and Jupterian translation program has malfunctioned. Please do try to behave.

Richard

[John Pic]

Arrogant B--t--d !!!Sorry couldn't resist...keep helping people you'll get used to being called all kinds of things.

[Johnny R]

Yes, no good deed ever goes unpunished. I do not want to waste anyone's time but will explain his directed hatred by mentioning I had sort of an insane go around with him before which I also hope was mostly language related.

Anyway,

There is a WWII Army panzer crusher for sale on Manions now, (even though I am super arrogant I will need to lower my massive self esteem for a second to admit I do not know if it is real or not) it has the same type of lining.

[WEISNER]

Peter raised a valid point about the buckles sitting on the leather visor in post #77. In posts #2 & 3 I can see what appears to be holes from the chincord buttons on the side of the cap.

However, in post #20 there are 3 holes in the cap band where the skull sits (2 on the left when looking at the cap front on), and a clear outline of a round cockarde being on there at some stage......


Brett

Brett is really onto somthing! I see outline of the cockade also.
Johnny.... as you say "no good deed goes unpunished" You shall be punished for some time to come IMO LOL!!!
Interesting thread, Best Regards Gents!
Kev

[BenVK]

I have been all over the place on this cap. At this point my feeling is that it is an original Imperial Veterinarian cap that was re-badged at some point to be SS...pre or post 45...who knows.

If I had it in my hands I think that I could feel certain either way as to the period it was made, but the problem in this case with only having photos is that there were so many varieties in fabric, lining, visors, headbands and even the shape that can be found on Imperial caps. The crushers were in many way derived from a variety of popular WWI cap style that was built for use at the front...light weight, no shaping.padding and leather visor....in other words, they were like the one that started this thread.

Compound the facts above with the fact that only 20 years after WWI many of the same Imperial era cap makers were making private purchase crushers out of more or less the same materials that they had used a bit earlier.....it can be tough to determine when the piping and band combo will work for both Imperial and 3rd Reich......note in Shea's book on SS headgear the only SS officer crusher pictured in the featured cap examples of the book is in fact a re-badged Imperial era Technical/Art. style "crusher"...and is stated as such in a round about way in the book.

Lastly on the matter of the chinstrap imprints, it could offer a clue, but chinstraps (or cords in some cases) were worn and not worn on Imperial caps like this and the same is true for both Heer and SS crushers. So the use of a chinstrap really does not prove the era or the cap type either way.

A spot on analysis and I wish I had said it.

[Richard P]

A spot on analysis and I wish I had said it.

Vintage Phil...and why I always try to solicit his opinions! As Ben said Phil...Spot on!

Richard

[BenVK]

Would be interesting to know however if there are holes through the band for a chinstrap.